ploughCan this be re fuelled today by our current tankers in the air?
558 still has the nose probe, but all the pipework and other equipment for AAR was removed during the restoration.
Just wondered why this is not earning money from air shows all over the world? im sure it’s been thought of far too many pages to read to find out
She has had a couple of excursions into Europe last year, but it isn’t practicable to go further afield. For one thing she doesn’t have sufficient flying hours available. There is only one spare set of engines (and one of those currently has a question mark over it) and Rolls Royce will not rebuild them.
They are limited to 1200 cycles on the throttle per engine (1 cycle = fully closed to fully open and back to fully closed; smaller throttle movements in flight add up to full cycles). They have had 2 seasons now, and estimate about another 8 years or so of displays. At that point XH558 will grounded permanently in any case.
On the direction of this thread, it amazes me that it hardly attracts any comments or posts while everything is going well for 558, and only suddenly springs to life again when certain people have an opportunity to start throwing mud at the project. Air Ministry was chastised for suggesting some people are anti-558/VTST, and actually want it to fail, but it isn’t difficult to see how he got that impression.
ploughHmmm… I’m pretty sure that it was early evening – I can see it in my minds eye now. Therefore, it sounds like it must have been one of the trial flights you mention. One things for certain – it was certainly impressive in the sky – great big contrails.
I am sure I remember reading that he initial pair of Vulcans returned to Waddington at some point and XM596 and XM597 (which had been equipped with ‘Shrike’) went out seperately (a day apart) to carry out the anti radar operations. Perhaps it was one of them that you saw accompanied by two Victors?
Re. the above refuelling plan – it looks complicated enough on paper, let alone sorting out the right tanker at the right time in the dark (and in radio silence) 😮
ploughI think the extension to the Permit to Fly that was granted in July, ran out in October 😉
There is nothing (other than the need to refit the main leg) why 558 would not be granted a single flight permit to allow her to be moved elsewhere if the worst should happen. I am keeping everything crossed that they win through (which is making typing a little difficult :p)
If they can get the money to complete the leg change and the spar mod, 558 will only need a relatively small winter service each year from then on, and they will possibly be able to cover most of the annual costs from their regular sponsorship and fundraising without the need for a desperate appeal.
ploughThey didn’t need to do the spar and leg last year but still had the desperate appeal, nothing suggests to me that next year will be any different!
VTST say they require a total of around £2.4 million this year due to the extra work involved in the spar, leg and further required inspection work carried over from the restoration.
They have estimated that they would need around £1.8 million to fly 558 in a normal season. It is reasonable to assume that the £0.6 million difference is only due to the one-off costs this year.
In one of his updates late last year, Robert Pleming stated clearly that they had £1.6 million that they were confident of receiving from existing funding sources.
That suggests very clearly that next year should be very different – the shortfall would be at most, a quarter of this years appeal target.
ploughI don’t think it is ridiculous at all.
Last year they had to cover ongoing running costs plus debts held over from the restoration plus a shortfall in funding over the 2008 display season.
This year they have to pay for ongoing running costs plus the necessary modification work to the airframe plus the necessary refurbishment of the undercarriage leg plus the cost of inspection/testing work done on XM603(one-off costs for work which was held over from the initial restoration due to the shortfall in finances in 2007).
Next year they should only need to fund ongoing running costs.
As RP has stated that existing funding sources are expected to provide about £1.6 million this year (and with good luck and hard work will be improved on for 2011), and the estimated annual running costs are around £1.8 million, that leaves a very small shortfall for next year compared with this year and last year.
It is not ridiculous, it is not complicated, and it is not looking at the project through rose tinted glasses either. It is simple basic maths.
…but to believe that TVOC won’t be in the same mess this time next year is frankly ridiculous
In my opinion it is equally ridiculous to assume that they will!
ploughThe first B2 was XH553, so all subsequent serials (XJ, XL and XM) will be B2s also.
All the B2s were built with the rounded top to the fin. The fin tops were later modified for the RWR (in the early 70s I think?).
I don’t know the reason 603 still has the earlier fin – no doubt someone will enlighten us :confused:.
ploughThis is excellent news, someone is very generous indeed and I join in thanking them wholeheartedly 🙂
I would have thought the main drive should be to get the beastie in the skies again
I think you will find it is. This is the relevent sentence which you may have missed:
As the result, I have pleasure in confirming that the Board of Trustees has decided that VTST now has sufficient funding in place to go forward with the planned engineering programme, and onward to the 2010 Display Season.
They have several weeks of servicing together with further modification work held over from the restoration), all of which HAS to be done before she can fly again.
ploughI know the servicing has to be done before… it can hardly be done during flight now can it? But nowhere has operating costs, or the crew costs, or any of the stuff that appeared in those lovely pi charts that were kicking around a while back been mentioned. Just the idea of playing businesses.
I think you are trying to read things into the press announcement that are not there. Indeed, I think several previous posters are doing this and twisting what is written there so that they can have another dig.
The reference to “and onward to the 2010 Display Season” pretty clearly refers to “getting the beastie back into the air” as you put it.
ploughThe whole appeal has been about raising the money to complete the engineering work AND operate the aircraft for the coming display season.
This was always clear from everything published by VTST and from reading posts on the vulcantothesky forum.
It beggars belief that anyone can try and infer that anything else is the case.
ploughTechnically, for the purpose of the airshow, XM607 doesn’t have the ground side covered at all. She sits inaccessible on a concrete plinth on the opposite side of the airfield from the crowd, and I believe it would have to be craned off the plinth before it could be moved elsewhere (if indeed she is still towable?).
Whilst it is correct to say that 558 was broken on the Sunday of Waddington 2008, it was certainly anything but a fine day! 😉
ploughIt was better than 2007, and better than Saturday morning, when pretty much everything was on the ground. I didn’t say ‘fine’, I said ‘good’..
I was there. Saturday soon cleared up and was quite bright in the afternoon. Sunday wasn’t even good, it peed it down that day and everone waqs soaked by the end. 558 did her aborted take off run in a cloud of spray and with very dark clouds above.
One inaccessible Vulcan is much the same as another. So the arguments pointless.
I think it is your arguments that are pointless. 558 was accessible in the static area. 607 was an immoveable dot in the distance.
If you want to see XM607 closer, go for a wander down the A15 like everbody else does. she was still there when I went to Bracebridge Heath last week. She’s not on a plinth either, she’s on her own little Vulcan shaped pad. To say your location states you are in Lincoln, I would have thought you would have known that.
Apparently it is you who doesn’t know how she is fixed (thank you for the confirmation TwinOtter;) )
You are right, it is right against the A15 and I can (and do) go to see her whenever I want. However, on airshow days (which is what we were originally talking about) the Police will tend to get a little excitable about lots of people wandering about alongside what is a very fast and busy road.
ploughWhat exactly is your problem!!!! :confused: You made an incorrect statement about the weather, now you are twisting my post round to infer something that I did not say at all. It’s unbelievably pathetic!
At no point have I stated or inferrred that she was not broken.
You stated that the weather on the Sunday was good; it wasn’t, as all those who got soaked will testify. End of.
ploughSomebody on Radio 4’s excellent news quiz said “UKIP is for people who think their lives are someone else’s fault”.
I thought that was excellent…….
Exactly the sort of comment that almost always comes from people who have completely and utterly missed the point of why UKIP came into being to start with, and why it is recieving such significant support now.
The same kind of blinkered fools who dismiss UKIP out of hand by trying to portray them and their supporters as simply racists.
If those who disagree with the idea of withdrawing from the EU don’t soon wake up and take the concerns of a huge proportion of the population seriously, instead of keep fobbing everyone off with mealy mouthed half promises of a referendum (but no mention of what the question will be), and nonsense about some renegotiation of the UK/EU treaties (not actually permitted under the rules of EU membership to start with), then UKIP will contiinue to gain strength.
plough“Sad to see the so called Urbex bods have trespassed at scampton”
These are just a bunch of a-holes.Â
Genuine urban explorers make a particular point of not breaking in, only entering where there is a clear and easy access, and they have a rigidly adhered to rule that they only look and record – they do not interfere with stuff, do not cause damage and do not remove anything.Â
I’m a bit surprised that these airframes are still at Scampton – HHA’s website is saying the Sukhoi (98+14) and Buccaneer (XX885) are in storage at Leeming!
plough
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