RE: Log-in names

Wombat – short, sweet, and sooooo typically Aussie.

Besides, it’s easy to type in. I feel sorry for Hauptsturmfuhrer!

RE: Australia’s refugee problem

Mongu

Sounds similar to our problems. Most of the current ports of departure for the boat people are in Indonesia. Australia has tried to have Indonesia recognise its responsibilities in this matter, but typical of Indonesian arrogance, they don’t want to know about it. They have started to police the ports better, but when we try to turn the vessels back and tell Indonesia that the refugees should reside there, they stone-wall.

Funny sort of people to have as neighbours, but they’re perfectly willing to accept our foreign aid…

RE: Please be honest.

I’ve been pretty slack and only found this thread today, so my apologies for the very late submission of this memo.

Australian, and fiercely proud of the fact. (I reckon I’ve made that pretty obvious in my various threads, and my name gives me away too)
50 last April. My father, who was British served with the Royal Navy (his MTB stuck a mine in the Channel and sank on D-day and my grandfather served with the AIF in New Guinea against the Japanese from 43-45. I have their service medals mounted and framed, hung on the wall above me as I type.

I think their experiences fostered a deep fascination with all things relating to World War 2, but at the age of 10, I discovered aeroplanes from that period and the interest has never waned. A true love affair over 40 years…

RE: Australia’s refugee problem

Mongu

Just finished my last post and saw that yours was on.

Sorry about your reception in Melbourne, but we have another problem with visitors overstaying their visas and unfortunatly, Brits are amongst the worst offenders. Australians know that our country appeals to many other nationalities as a desirable place to live. This appeal was enhanced with the coverage given to the Olympics in 2000, because we presented ourselves as much more than kangaroos and the Opera House.

What you endured is pretty much standard practice now for all visitors – not just yourself or other Brits. Where you had been over recent months was not so much the point, as to ensure that you had entered and left legally.

I guess as we all tighten our security following 9/11, combined with meeting our individual national problems, travellers will find themselves increasingly inconvenience, but you will always be welcome to visit.

Regards

Wombat

RE: Australia’s refugee problem

Serendib

Your comment regarding the refugees being held in death camps is interesting, if that is the way our detention centres are being described overseas.

They are not and never were “death camps”. In some cases, they are converted former army barracks, which have been updated substantially with air conditioning, comfortable sleeping facilities, kitchens, television and other mod-cons. They may not be as comfortable as your home, but would be a considerable improvement on the standard of housing the refugees “enjoyed” in their homeland.

Aussies are pretty annoyed at the way we are being described as heartless, cruel etc. Here are a few points to consider about our illegal refugee problem.

1. This is not a new phenomenon out here. Since the end of the Vietnamese war in 1975, we have had the problem of “boat-people” (ie refugees travelling in rotten, old, and decrepit fishing trawlers departing from various south-east asian ports), landing on our northern, desolate coast-line. Originally, these people were asian in origin, principally from Vietnam and China.

2. It is an acknowledged fact that, in order to obtain travel on these vessels, criminal organisations were arranging travel at considerable cost. Australians feel that for the “refugees” to be able to afford their fares, they must have been comparatively well-off in their homeland, which makes you wonder why they felt they had to leave for a better life.

3. Since September 11, the number of illegal migrants increased dramatically. The boat-load rescued by the Tampa was typical, but was by no means the first or only lot to attempt the voyage.

4. Many of the passengers on these vessels have no identification, so that they can claim to be seeking asylum from Afghanistan, where a despotic religious regime ruled. Without identification, assessment of their claims have been seriously delayed.

5. In nearly all cases, these people have already travelled through a number of other countries where they could have sought asylum. Because they were travelling under illegal arrangements, for which they had paid considerable amounts, Australia was their only acceptable destination.

6. When they have been apprehended, many of them have shown a total disregard for our laws or our right to assert them. They have demanded that they be permitted to reside in Australia. The manner in which they have behaved has ensured that many of us would not want them for our neighbours under any circumstances.

7. This country has a population of just under 20 million. Despite any perceptions to the contrary, it is not a huge, underpopulated land mass, just waiting to be filled by the world’s poor and starving. Much of Australia is barren – it is the driest populated continent on earth. At present, we are suffering severe droughts in the eastern states. Our unemployment rate is 6.5%, worse than many other developed nations. There is a limit to the numbers of refugees we can take in, particularly those who are uneducated, cannot speak English, have large families who would all need welfare to survive, and for whom meaningful employment would be difficult to find.

8. Our unemployment benefits are very generous – perhaps too generous, and many of these people have made the trip in the belief that this wonderful country would look after them.

9. Recent developments in Afghanistan now mean that there is no regime from which to flee, so many claims for asylum no longer have acceptable grounds.

10. Our Minister for Immigration recently announced that of the 650 plus detainees who remained in detention centres, none were classified as refugees under the United Nations criteria. Their cases had all been assessed and they should be sent back to their homeland. Some are about to go, whilst others have appealed against the decision.

11. The riots and destruction in the detention centres is caused by the detainees who are rebelling against the decision to return them. Many of them have never attempted to co-operate or accept the judge’s decisions and have attempted hunger-strikes, stitching their mouths closed, or jumping from the tops of buildings into razor wire in front of the press, to gain sympathy for their cause. Unfortunately, this tends to toughen our resolve against them. (Except for a few who have assisted some of the detainees to escape)

12. Finally, our detention centres are situated in remote centres for the protection of the Australian community, which, after all, is the first concern of our Federal Government. The centres are hundreds of miles from the nearest major centres for good reason. They may not have all the luxuries of home, but please treat the description of “death camps” as what they are – media “beat-ups”. No one is put in them to die and any attempt to liken our detention centres to Auschwitz or Buchenwald is grossly misleading.

Wombat

RE: 8th AF, B17 battle damage

Moggy

I had read of the incredible ability of the B-17 to absorb damage and still get her crews home, but hadn’t seen anything like some of these photos.

No wonder the aircraft was held in such high esteem by those who flew in her.

Fantastic link, thanks for sharing it with us.