dark light

totoro

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  • in reply to: 5th gen light fighter. is it practical? #2183854
    totoro
    Participant

    Putting four amraam sized missiles and as much fuel internally as gripen carries with its external tanks would automatically make it fatter, heavier and draggier. Adding extra weight due to rarar absorbing materials would not help either. Cant see such a plane being under 10 tons of empty weight. Even so, its range would be less than gripen and its kinematics would be worse as well. Then again, youd get radar stealth… everything is a compromise…

    in reply to: What happened to Russia mil aviation? #2184143
    totoro
    Participant

    On a more serious note, I don’t really think all these big su-30 purchases are smart. Instead of a stop gap solution, a few dozen bought, they’re turning to be really the mainstay of future Ruaf fleet. Su30m2 is pretty obsolete even today, and even Su30sm isn’t really going to be superior to many opponents in ten years’ time. And even the whole mig-35 plan doesn’t seem like it’s worth the while, considering the timetable it will happen in and considering all these planes will be serving 30 years from now.

    Sure, companies making those planes got work, certain people got their pockets filled, Ruaf got a continuity of training their personnel on planes that can actually fly – but at what cost? Wouldn’t it have been better if su35 was the mainstay of all ruaf purchases until pak-fa was ready for mass production? Even if it means investing money only into one manufacturer? Sure, those planes are more expensive, and maybe even the inventory totals would have been lower if that route was taken – but plane purchase price is really just a smaller part of operating a plane over 30 years. And part of the extra cost would have been compensated with less pilots and infrastructure needed due to less two seater planes.

    Having two or three competing firms may be doable for very large economies. But if France, UK etc are getting by with a single producer – maybe it’s better for Russia too, instead of throwing a lifeline to multiple manufacturers (within the same company even!) every now and then.

    in reply to: PLAAF crisis #2190297
    totoro
    Participant

    There are several variants of each still in service.

    There’s J8F, newest combat variant with half decent avionics using pl-12 missiles.
    There’s J8FR, recce variant based on J8F airframe.
    There’s J8H and J8DH. I grouped them together as I’m not sure how many (if any) J8H are newly made or if they’re all in fact modernized J8D variants. They’re using avionics somewhat older than j8f and use pl-11 missile.
    There’s J8D, fairly old type available in a single regiment, probably first to be retired. Has no BVR capability but, unlike even older j8 variants, is IFR capable.

    As for Q5, there’s the twoseater trainer Q5J, quite new.
    There’s Q5L, which are modernized Q5D and use fairly decent avionics, being newer than e/f, capable of using laser guided bombs.
    There’s Q5E/F which are newbuilds and originated in 1990s and can use LGBs.
    There’s Q5D, pretty obsolete now, using only unguided weapons, serving in some 2-3 units.

    in reply to: PLAAF crisis #2190363
    totoro
    Participant

    PLAAF operates j8 in various variants (including recce variant) in 8 regiments. (planaf operate an additional one) That could be over 150 active duty j8 in plaaf plus another 20ish within planaf. Last of them were freshly made in SAC factories in 2011 and most of these 180ish date from 2000 and later. So they have at least a decade or two more, aiframe life wise. Whether plaaf will indeed keep all of them until they run out of flying hours is another matter. But i don’t see a premature fleet retirement until the said fleet drops well below 100 airframes, making it economically unsound to keep the infrastructure for an obsolte type that’s available only in small numbers. So i’d say we’re looking at at least 2025, i don’t think plaaf will retire its j8 before that. 2030 is also possible. planaf should replace its last regiment fairly soon, at most a few years, or even within a year.

    Q5 is in a similar position. planaf doesn’t operate them anymore. plaaf has 7 regiments/brigades operating them. Plus there’s the training variant q5j, which was produced until very recently, and which serves as lead in training plane for jh7 regiments. The youngest of combat variant airframes are not over 10 years old. Overall figures may be close to 200, as q5 units seem to have more planes than most of other units. So, as with j8, it doesn’t seem likely combat variants will vanish before 2025, and training variants may stick in small numbers even to 2030.

    in reply to: New Chinese Stealth Attack aircraft #2210476
    totoro
    Participant

    Thank you, that does seem like a pretty decent comparison. Of importance is the fact f117’s intakes are positioned a bit over the wing/lerx edge and not really flush with its upper surface. And that was for a purely subsonic aircraft.

    This fan design also seems to be in need of larger intakes, really.

    in reply to: New Chinese Stealth Attack aircraft #2210479
    totoro
    Participant

    Less than more, i’d say. These are angled against the fuselage and B2’s are flush with the wing. On one hand these might have somewhat better high AoA capability as they’re higer above the wing, but on the other hand – they’re really above the lerx, not the wing. What sort of air circulation one might see over and around lerx? could it be too turbulent for proper air ingestion?

    The rest of the plane looks to be designed for supersonic speeds to me, so the whole AoA issue might be important.

    And yes, i am fully aware that’s just a fanboy design, i am discussing the general aerodynamics issues here.

    in reply to: New Chinese Stealth Attack aircraft #2210508
    totoro
    Participant

    clearly based on that black model from a year or two ago.

    Anyway, is there actually an aircraft anywhere in the world which featured intake layout/position and shape similar to what is shown here?

    in reply to: Chinese Air Power Thread 17 #2215017
    totoro
    Participant

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]235940[/ATTACH]

    possibly the first image of ws-20 engine from the front. Intake area seems very comparable to ps90a. Thicker intake lip and engine cowling seems to be present, though.

    in reply to: turbofan engines and their intakes #2218657
    totoro
    Participant

    Thank you, Andraxxus, i think i have my question answered. 🙂 Just one last thing on a slightly different note. Recent deluge of supercruising fighters with modern turbofans is result of improved (added thrust) fan section or core section? (i would assume it’s the core section but what do i know?)

    in reply to: turbofan engines and their intakes #2218832
    totoro
    Participant

    Talking strictly about speed at same altitude, both fan and core will have curves similar to the blue one, and the falling dashed blue line. However its peak point is not necessarily around M1.0, and its not dependent on engine itself but inlet design.

    i am more interested in thrust at same altitude comparison. Or did you mean exhaust velocity? so basically you’re saying core and fan sections will have thrust curves very similar one to another? So in all 4 examples of different planes with different intakes, both fan and core section will still have thrust curves very similar one to another all the way through transsonic region and beyond?

    in reply to: turbofan engines and their intakes #2219105
    totoro
    Participant

    Fan section has a certain pressure ratio. It takes some of the mass flow according to its bypass ratio, pressurizes it, and sends it into nozzle (be it seperate nozzle or merged with core), thats about it. In thin air, pressure drops. In M0,85+ speeds, intake pressure drops. In both cases, Fan has less mass of air to give energy, so its performance drops. It also has less pressure beyond the fan, so its not enough to met the conditions for con-di nozzle to work.

    Engine core on the other hand, not only compresses air, but also gives additional energy by burning/heating up the air inside. Core actually uses a small portion of the inlet air to oxidize fuel, and core is primarily limited by turbine inlet temperature, and engine RPM. On typical jet engine, at low altitude, due to high air density, more air is compressed, and more heat is generated (non-isentropic compression). So Air-fuel mass ratio is kept low, so TIT will not exceed design limits. At high altitude, air is colder and thinner. Lower pressure means, less heating up within compressor. When this -relatively- cold air passes into combustion chamber, engine controller can freely inject more fuel to heat this colder air to TIT limit. This will increase the pressure at the turbine section. Ideally, turbine design keeps RPM within limits and this increased pressure is directly translated to thrust. In practice, this pressure will also spin turbines faster, overreving and potentially damaging the engine. Vmax on F-15, MiG-25 going M3.2 are all examples of this.

    thank you. These paragrahps have helped me, i think. So Core section can compensate (to a degree at least) the loss of pressure but fan section has no such luxury. it is all very logical, really.

    As last question, i have a very crude graph i made. [ATTACH=CONFIG]235541[/ATTACH]

    It portrays my understanding of thrust levels that fan section offers and core section offers. red is the core section, blue is the fan section. now i know i probably messed up the exact curves of both functions, and their starting values may be off but in very general terms – are the curves correct-ish?

    I’m still not sure what happens with blue curve once the aircraft speed goes over mach 1. I am, however, assuming it’s all happening at 35.000 feet or so. Does the thrust remain level so eventually core section surpasses it due to ram effect? Does it rise still but less steeply, so the cross point is not at mach 1 but perhaps higher up? Or does it simply start falling and becomes less and less useful?

    in reply to: turbofan engines and their intakes #2219590
    totoro
    Participant

    I’m afraid i’m not understanding the replies here. So are fan sections in some ways thrust-limited when airplane is going over mach 1 or not? And if so, in which ways? Do the limitations increase with even more speed? And if so, how?

    in reply to: turbofan engines and their intakes #2219657
    totoro
    Participant

    let me see if i understand it. in a turbofan engine, exhaust of the air both from the fan section and from the core section is never ever above mach 1? and then the nozzle further accelerates the air to give greater thrust? Or did i misunderstand and core section can indeed eject air at higher velocities?

    i assume there must be a difference between fan section thrust curve and core section thrust curve, though. at which point does fan section start losing thrust, and at which point does its thrust become less than core section’s thrust? at mach 1 (airplane speed)? mach 1.2? more?

    in reply to: turbofan engines and their intakes #2219743
    totoro
    Participant

    thanks for the input. i am still not sure about certain things, though.

    if the air flow to the engine is subsonic, regardless of actual speed the plane itself flies (lets say it goes mach 1.5) nonafterburning turbofan should still perform to the best of its ability. is that not so?

    or is there some thing that prevents the fan section from pushing the air from the engine at velocities higher than mach 1? if so, what prevents it?

    in reply to: RuAF News and development Thread part 14 #2219926
    totoro
    Participant

    *IF* one talks solely about fuselage diameter, il96’s is some 25% larger than il76.

Viewing 15 posts - 196 through 210 (of 934 total)