Doesn’t look like English or European countryside, the roundels look early was and fin flash on the inside of the rudder?
Wings look a little short, is this an early production batch aircraft, no armament etc?
Camouflage looks unworn and not usual Coastal Command.
Be interested in finding out more!
Crew Details (if you haven’t already obtained them from the CWGC website):-
Name: BARRIE, RONALD HARRY JOSEPH. Initials: R H J. Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 142 Sqdn.
Age: 21. Date of Death: 26/03/1942. Service No: 967059
Additional information: Son of Ronald Stanley Barrie and Lily Florence Barrie, of Chester.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Allied Plot. Row 1. Grave 22. Cemetery: THE HAGUE (WESTDUIN) GENERAL CEMETERY
Name: WHITE, DAVID JOHN. Initials: D J. Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant (Pilot). Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 142 Sqdn.
Age: 20. Date of Death: 25/03/1942. Service No: 1166180
Additional information: Son of Thomas and Jennie White.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Allied Plot. Row 1. Grave 20. Cemetery: THE HAGUE (WESTDUIN) GENERAL CEMETERY
Name: JELLY, ALFRED. Initials: A. Nationality: United Kingdom. Rank: Sergeant (W.Op./Air Gnr.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 142 Sqdn.
Age: 29. Date of Death: 26/03/1942. Service No: 1309716
Additional information: Son of Alfred and Lilian Mary Jelly, of Rochdale, Lancashire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Allied Plot. Row 1. Grave 21. Cemetery: THE HAGUE (WESTDUIN) GENERAL CEMETERY
Name: GROVES, ERIC CHARLES. Initials: E C. Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 142 Sqdn.
Date of Death: 25/03/1942. Service No: 1375174. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 84. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Name: LENNOX, ANDREW. Initials: A. Nationality: Canadian. Rank: Flight Sergeant (Air Obs.). Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force. Unit Text: 142 (R.A.F.) Sqdn
Age: 23. Date of Death: 25/03/1942. Service No: R/77507
Additional information: Son of Andrew and Esther Lennox, of Innisfail, Alberta, Canada.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Allied Plot. Row 1. Grave 18. Cemetery: THE HAGUE (WESTDUIN) GENERAL CEMETERY
Name: PIPHER, WILLIAM MELVILLE. Initials: W M. Nationality: Canadian. Rank: Flight Sergeant (Pilot). Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force
Unit Text: 142 (R.A.F.) Sqdn. Age: 24. Date of Death: 26/03/1942. Service No: R/78467
Additional information: Son of Earl Melville Pipher and Mary Ester Pipher, of Newmarket, Ontario, Canada.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Allied Plot. Row 1. Grave 19. Cemetery: THE HAGUE (WESTDUIN) GENERAL CEMETERY
Apart from Groves, they all remain in company in death, in adjacent plots.
The normal crew complement of a Wellington was 5; the German recovery team may not have looked for more than 5 sets of remains when recovering the crew. Given his youthful age, it’s possible that Sgt White may have been getting his first taste of operational flying in the spare (“dickey”) seat. 5 crew was what they expected and 5 crew they buried and it may not have been noticed that there were actually parts of 6 crew…… hence no known grave for Sgt Groves.
The other slight anomaly is that 3 have 25th March as their Date of Death; the other 3 are shown as 26th March. Obviously being a night attack, it would span midnight, but unless 3 crew succumbed to dying of injuries AFTER midnight and the other 3 were killed outright when crashing BEFORE midnight, surely only one Date of Death should apply.
Obviously there are many more talented than I who may have access to more accurate details of the loss. Perhaps they’ll step forward.
Hope this is of some help.
Happy New Year
BBMF Dakota
Just a brief message of “Thanks” for the great overflight this afternoon at approx 15:45 en route from Limoges.
Wondered what the engine noises were, then suddenly over the brow of the hill there she was, nice and low.
Gave ’em a wave, but out of sight pretty quickly.
Please continue using that flight path, I won’t complain!!
I’m sure there must be full details out there about Sgt N C Jackson’s VC, trying to put out the fuel tank fire by crawling along the wing of a burning bomber under night fighter attack…..
“Phew” just writing that makes me sweat at the thought of doing that!
And then to escape twice and get home!
Whether anyone recorded a successful claim is perhaps not part of the main story.
From Googling the Serial No. (Lost Bombers info)
102 Squadron Whitley Mk V. Serial Number: T4269. Squadron Code: DY-?. Operation: Bremen. 27th June 1941
T4269 was one of four 102 Sqdn Whitleys lost on this operation. See: T4297; Z6572; Z6579. Airborne 22:36 on 27 June ’41 from Topcliffe. Crashed at Brunsbuttel, Germany, where the crew were first buried. Cause of loss unknown.They have been subsequently re-interred in the Kiel War Cemetery. Sgt A.P. Nicoll KIA; P/O M.N.F. Jones KIA; P/O A. Bleakley KIA; Sgt E.G. Whitehead KIA; Sgt R.D. Davidson KIA; Sgt A. Pratt KIA. No explanation for the six-man crew. Presumably the extra crewman may have been new and along to learn about operational flying.
Name: NICOLL, ALBERT PHILIP. Rank: Sergeant (Pilot)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 102 Sqdn.
Age: 25. Date of Death: 27/06/1941. Service No: 969415
Additional information: Son of John and Sarah Nicoll, of Dundee.
Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 3. D. 11-16. Cemetery: KIEL WAR CEMETERY
Name: JONES, MORRAY NIGEL FELTHAM. Rank: Pilot Officer (Pilot)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 102 Sqdn.
Date of Death: 27/06/1941. Service No: 88866
Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 3. D. 11-16. Cemetery: KIEL WAR CEMETERY
Name: BLEAKLEY, AUSTEN. Rank: Pilot Officer (Obs.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 102 Sqdn.
Age: 27. Date of Death: 27/06/1941. Service No: 82734
Additional information: Son of Arthur and Hannah Bleakley; husband of Doris Mabel Bleakley, of Harrow, Middlesex.
Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 3. D. 11-16. Cemetery: KIEL WAR CEMETERY
Name: WHITEHEAD, EDWARD GEORGE. Rank: Sergeant (W.Op./Air Gnr.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 102 Sqdn.
Age: 20. Date of Death: 27/06/1941. Service No: 916405
Additional information: Son of George and Winifred Whitehead, of Stratton St. Margaret, Swindon, Wiltshire.
Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 3. D. 11-16. Cemetery: KIEL WAR CEMETERY
Name: DAVIDSON, RUDOLF DEY. Rank:Sergeant (W.Op./Air Gnr.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Unit Text: 102 Sqdn.
Age: 21. Date of Death: 27/06/1941. Service No: 971260
Additional information: Son of George Gordon Davidson and Maria Dey Davidson, of Aberdeen; husband of Hazel Dey Davidson.
Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 3. D. 11-16. Cemetery: KIEL WAR CEMETERY
Name: PRATT, ARTHUR. Rank: Flight Sergeant (Air Gnr.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force (Auxiliary Air Force). Unit Text: 102 Sqdn.
Date of Death: 27/06/1941. Service No: 808346
Additional information: Son of Thomas William and Selina Pratt, of Middlesbrough, Yorkshire.
Grave/Memorial Reference: Coll. grave 3. D. 11-16. Cemetery: KIEL WAR CEMETERY
From the fact they share a communal grave, I’d guess that the aircraft was totally out of control, possibly in a spin so that none could bale out in time.
With David’s suggestion of 15 Squadron, I found this by Googling to Lost Bombers website
15 Squadron Stirling Mk III. Serial Number: BK667. Squadron Codes: LS-H. Operation: St Nazaire. 22nd/23rd March 1943
Delivered to No.15 Sqdn 21st Jan 1943. Airborne 19:28 on 22nd March ’43 from Bourn. Turned back following major problems with the starboard outer and port inner engines. While trying to to land at Lyneham in poor visibility, the Stirling overshot and came down in a field at Clyffe Pypard, 8 miles SW of Swindon, Wiltshire. F/Sgt J.L. Shiells; Sgt G.K. Compson; Sgt B. Taafe; Sgt C.B. Perring; Sgt L.A. James; Sgt J. Gould; Sgt B.J.A. Bessette RCAF and Sgt D.J.A. Hyde survived uninjured.
Looks like this was before Alan’s father joined the crew as no Kirk shown (or it could simply be another Compson, as rank shown as Sergeant!)
Ooops!! Ah, Short Scion…. not Avro Avian…. my mistake….
Thanks for the correction….. now I’ll go and see what one looks like!!
I never got close enough to use it as a climbing frame!!!
Probably of no help whatsoever, but when I were a young lad, many, many years ago, I used to spend a lot of time at Rochford/Southend airport.
On the Eastwoodbury Lane side, near where the church is right by the runway, there was a footpath which crossed by the runway junctions. On that side were hangars for ? Channel Airways and other main operators.
I remember that one hangar was right beside the footpath and between the footpath and the hangar wall was a rusty derelict airframe skeleton. I had heard that that was all that remained of an Avro Avian.
Whether it is still there almost 50 years on, is unknown, nor if that is actually true.
There are some chaps who regularly post about Southend Airport on the forum, so a quick search might provide people who could verify whether it’s true and/or still there….
I also remember what I thought were 5 or 6 Rapide fuselages and wings at the back of one large hangar…
Sorry if this not of interest, but….?
First up, welcome
Secondly, this may be of interest:-
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-air/27774-sgt-j-c-aston-rafvr.html
Hope that gets you started!
If they were already flying Operations, then the likely reason for the move to 97 Squadron would be experienced crews to replace Pathfinder losses.
As regards “B Bertie”, 15 OF-B’s were lost, 13 Lancs, 1 Manchester and 1 Wellington, but without knowing the serial, it won’t be possible to narrow down further. Frequently the letter was changed if an aircraft were in need of maintenance or repair, so another would be given that code letter. In some instances there were 2 with the same letter, so “B2”, for instance, would distinguish one from the other.
Do the two photos show the same flak damage? The wing surface looks peeled up and a ladder is near, it seems all are looking at that part of the wing and the mid upper turret is covered, as if needing to be protected for some reason…
Whoa there, handbags down, guys, it was MY fault for trotting out what is obviously a myth…. sorry, forgot he had to get his parachute on first!! I’ll engage brain (hopefully) before posting next time.
Rear gunners could rotate their turret, open the rear door and just fall out, but obviously this was a catastrophic crash and no time for parachute to deploy fully (if at all) but the rest of the crew had to either bale out via a panel near the bomb aimer, cockpit, rear fuselage door or any large opening. Very difficult, especially if in a spin, dive etc… but if anyone did get out, odds were likely to be the rear gunner. No way of telling in this case, just statistical possibility…
To be honest, I’ve not heard much about relatives receiving photographs of crew for identification purposes, anyone else know if this was a regular occurrence??
rachy stew His birth date is given as 23rd May 1908 and death registered 3rd Qtr 1982 in Wandsworth. Ah, I see where you have the date of September, and marriage, but check DoB again.
A couple of references that seem to be him:-
97 Squadron Lancaster L7570. Squadron Code: OF-B. Operation: Gardening. 20th March 1942
This was the first operational loss of a Lancaster since the type entered Bomber Command service in December 1941. Airborne from Woodhall Spa for a mine-laying sortie off the Frisian Islands (Nectarines Area). Visibility was poor at the time and as the Lancaster climbed away, its starboard wing tip grazed the roof of a house. This resulted in a crash landing at 15:00 20 Mar 1942 on the beach at Frieston, 4 miles E of Boston, Lincolnshire. The crew escaped injury, and although little damaged, the Lancaster was swamped by the incoming tide and written off. Crew: F/O E.E. Rodley; P/O Colquhoun RCAF; Sgt Healey; Sgt Merralls; Sgt Cummings; Sgt J. Crisp and Sgt Ratcliffe.
102 Squadron Halifax Mk III NA175. Squadron Codes: DY-Q. Operation: Goch. 7th/8th February 1945
NA175 was one of two 102 Sqdn Halifaxes lost on this operation. See: LW142. Airborne from Pocklington to bomb transport and troop concentrations in and around Goch. Homebound badly shot up by a night-fighter and partially abandoned over Belgium, two members of the crew sustaining injuries. The Halifax came down about 01:00 some 400 metres from a zinc factory at Lommel (Limburg); W/O Smith is buried in Leopoldsburg War Cemetery.
Crew: W/O W.R. Smith KIA; Sgt J.G. Grist; F/Sgt W.A. McPherson; F/Sgt A.G. Kingdom Inj; F/O J. Crisp; Sgt W. Ollerton and Sgt B.Peckham Inj.
They may be namesakes, not the one chap, but????