toanwhere did you get those numbers?
PS-05A should be 120km for 1.0m2
Combat Aircraft, 2002, April
SAAB JAS39 GRIPEN by Jan Gunnar Jørgensen (Page 160 ~ 175)
Page 165:
“Many details about the PS-05/A are still classified but the Gripen is reported to be able to detect typical fighter-size targets at a 74-mile (120-km) distance……”
And the typical fighter-size target, according to the western standard, almost always means RCS = 5m2 class or RCS of MIG-29 class ~ Please correct me if Flygvapnet, FMV, and/or SAAB have/has the different definition(s) for the RCS of typical fighter-size target…….
Detecting RCS = 1m2 class target at the range of 120 km away is the performance that is even better than the AI.24 “Z standard” Foxhunter for Tornado ADV and the APG-63V1 for F-15C/D. And up to now, I haven’t see any military information to declare that PS-05A, a light radar which is 10% lighter than APG-68 (156 kg v.s 172 kg), could achieve such an amazing performance.
toanWhat’s the likelihood of the V-22 winning this time?
Would be really nice to see the V-22 in the green and white livery.
I think it would look great.
The VH-71 (which is originated from AW101) was cancelled due to its price had been acceptable for the Obama’s government.
And the unit cost of V-22 is around two to three times higher than AW101. So what do you think for the winning chance of V-22 this time ??
toanIt does not make sense to fly with a maximum payload and less than 100% internal fuel…
Not that no sense:
1. The MTOW of F-22A today is 62,000 Ib (28,123 kg) according to the USAF pilot.
2. The empty weight of F-22A today is 19,660 kg, and the amount of its internal fuel is 8,165 kg.
3. 28,123 – 19,660 = 8,463 kg
And how much payload will Raptor be able to carry when it carries 100% internal fuel to take-off without surpassing the upper limit of MTOW for it today ??
It is true that some fighters (like Raptor) won’t carry their 100% internal fuel when they carry the maximal or very heavy weapon loads to take-off in order not to surpass the limit of MTOW. Although they can fulfill their 100% internal fuel capacity with the help of AAR after flying in the sky.
toanThe payload of Gripen NG has been increased from 6,000 kg to 7,200 kg according to the newest advertisement from SAAB. However, the MTOW of Gripen NG still remains to 16,500 kg in that advertisement.
It seems that when Gripen NG takes off with the maximal payload (7,200 kg), it won’t carry the 100% internal fuel (16500 – 7200 – 7000~7100 = 2200 ~ 2300 kg).
The maximal payload and MTOW of Rafale F3 + M88-2 today are 9,500 kg and 24,500 kg, which is enough for the AG configuration like SCALP-EG*2 + 2,000 L tank*3 + MICA*4 (or SCALP-EG*3 + 2,000 L tank*2 + MICA*4) with 100% internal fuel and the striking radius of 1,000 NM class.
The maximal payload and MTOW of future Rafale + M88 ECO (such as Rafale UAE) may be increased to 11,000 kg+ and 27,200 kg, which shall be enough for the AG configuration like SCALP-EG*3 + 2,000 L tank*2 + CFT*2 + MICA*4 with 100% internal fuel and the striking radius of near 1,200 NM class.
The payload potential of upgrading Gripen could reach the class of F/A-18C/D, while the payload and the striking radius potentials of upgrading Rafale could reach the class of F-15E.
toan>> BTW, why do you say ‘if the US will export the engine’? The USA isn’t the only country building fast jet engines.
It seems that the size and weight of KFX shall be between F-22 and F-35, or a fighter of 15~17 tonnes class I guess.
In order to push such size and weight of fighter with enough thrust, Korean wants more than 50,000 pound-class thrust for the KFX, or more than 25,000pound-class thrust of each KFX’s engine.
And except American (F414EDE etc…..), which western engine manufacturer has been prepared to design and produce a medium fighter engine that is more than 110 KN (25,000 pound) class with 9~10:1 T/W ratio ??
toanYou’re right, the Gripen would be the best option. But Austria fits your description aswell and look what they got. I know, different circumstances, but you never know what the government comes up with. Much better but only slightly more expensive was the idea in Austria… 😉
The annual defense budget of Slovakia today is between 0.40 ~ 0.45 billion USDs, which is only 25% of the annual defense budget of Austria, and not even enough to buy three new Rafales or Eurofighters with basic equipments, service, and support.
I think there are only two possible choices of newly-built fighters that are suitable for the defense budget of Slovakia today ~ Tejas or JF-17.
toanSo does this mean that the MP supports a UK built AESA for the Typhoon ? a Selex AESA ? Has no AESA been decided for the Typhoon as yet ?
It’s a MP has decided to support this plan, not the whole conservative / UK government.
No AESA has been formally decided for the productional Typhoon, and I don’t think it is a good time to push such kind of project right now, especially when the governments of UK, German, and Italy have decided to cut 10~20% annual MOD budget, while the Spain has become the most awful and dangerous financial PIGGS in Europe.
toanBoth european programs were hampered by the end of cold war (late 1980’s where there were only demonstrators flying) which resulted in big reductions in fundings and also, for the rafale (don’t know for the typhoon) new requirements that all led to significant delays.
And such kinds of problems should be even worse for the succesor of eurocanards.
The cold war is still over, and the European financial crisis has become worse and worse. The new UK government has decided to slash 6 billion pounds expenditure, while the Germany government has decided to reduced 10 billion Euros of budget every year, and the Italian government has decided to cut 10% of its annual budget of national defense…….. In such a condition, I think the last thing that the European governments will be glad to do is to start a new multinational fighter project……
In addition, the more countries joining the fighter program, the more problems, argues, conflict of interest, and different requirements and opinions will be needed to solve, and the more money and time will be wasted…… Personally, I don’t think a multinational fighter project among six (UK, German, France, Spain, Italy, and Sweden) or even more countries can be more efficient and time/budget-saving than the multinational projects like A400M or Eurofighter.
toanHistory of Eurofighter and Rafale:
1. Initial conceptual models in airshows: 1977 ~ 1979.
2. Techonological demonstrators (EAP and Rafale A): 1985 ~ 1986.
3. Prototypes: 1991 ~ 1994.
4. Initial productional fighters: 1996 ~ 1999.
5. IOC of the first squadron: 2004 ~ 2006.
6. FOC of the first squadron: 2006 ~ 2007.
If the initial conceptual model for the succesor of Eurocanards comes out at the time of 2015 ~ 2020, then we may wish:
1. Techonological demonstrator: 2023 ~ 2028.
2. Prototypes: 2030 ~ 2034.
3. Initial productional fighters: 2035 ~ 2040.
4. IOC of the first squadron: 2043 ~ 2047.
5. FOC of the first squadron: 2047 ~ 2048.
toanRevised acccording to the DSI, May, 2010……..
1. RAFALE F3（2008 ~ 2012）：
A. The first real omnirole Rafale.
B. New weapons and equipments：RECO-NG, DAMOCLES, ASMP-A, AM-39, GBU-24, and laser-guided rocket pod.
C. RBE-2 PESA radar（AESA upgrading in future）。
D. FSO or FSO-IT.
E. ROVER capability.
F. Every in-service Rafale in France has become F3 configuration after Feb, 2010.
2. Rafale F3-O4T／Rafale Batch 4（2012 ~ 2017）：
A. The first productional fighter with AESA radar in Europe.
B. New weapons and equipments：Damocles XF, new members of AASM family.
C. RBE-2 AESA radar.
D. FSO-IT.
E. DDM-NG.
F. Spectra EWS upgrading.
G. Possible upgrading choice: HMD.
H. M88 TCO upgrading (M88-4E).
3. Rafale UAE（2013 ~ ）：
A. Possibly the first member of Rafale with thrust enhancement.
B. New weapon：Meteor BVRAAM.
C. The main electronic equipments should be the same as Rafale F3-O4T or Rafale Batch5.
D. GMTT and GMTI modes.
E. HMD.
F. New M88 engine with thrust enhancement (20,000 Ib class).
G. RCS reduction.
H. Improvement in weapon load capability at tropic area（SCALP-EG*3 + 2,000 L tank*2 + AAM*6）。
4. Rafale Batch 5（2018 ~ 2023）：
A. Possibly the first member of Rafale with active stealthy techonology.
B. New weapon：Meteor BVRAAM, Next generation of Damocles.
C. Upgrading RBE-2 AESA radar（GaN？？）+/- side-looking airborne radar antenna.
D. GMTT and GMTI modes.
E. OSF-NG（Techonology of laser radar image？？）.
F. DDM-NG upgrading.
G. Upgrading for Data Fusion.
H. SATCOM Datalink.
I. SPECTRA 5T EWS (GaN).
J. HMD-NG.
K. Air-launched cruising jammer / decoy with deployable wings.
L. Other possible upgrading choices: Active stealthy techonology, LDIRCM, TVC etc…..
5. Rafale MLU (Post-2020 to 2025…..)：
A. Mid-life upgrading for another 20 to 25 years.
B. Completely new radar and other sensor systems.
C. New M88 engine with thrust enhancement.
D. CFTs for combat range enhancement.
E. Major improvements in fighter’s stealth, EWS, and combat survivability.
F. Remote controller of UCAV.
toanIt is still too early to say that Rafale UAE / Rafale F4 / Rafale Batch 5 must become the truth after 2014. Let’s wait and see if France can really persuade UAE to join such plan before the end of this year at first.
toanI think the most important thing that a future fighter of 2040 should consider is the engine system ~ Will our world still have enough petroleum at the time of 2040 to 2080 ???
toanSo what differences will there be between F3 and F4?
It seems that France hopes with the investment and the cooperation of UAE, the Batch 5 Rafale (or so-called Rafale F4) could be realized earlier than the original plan (2018 –> 2015)…..
1. RAFALE F3（2008 ~ 2012）：
A. The first real omnirole Rafale.
B. New weapons and equipments：RECO-NG, DAMOCLES, ASMP-A, AM-39, GBU-24, and laser-guided rocket pod.
C. RBE-2 PESA radar（AESA upgrading in future）。
D. FSO or FSO-IT.
E. ROVER capability.
F. Every in-service Rafale in France has become F3 configuration after Feb, 2010.
2. Rafale F3-O4T／Rafale Batch 4（2012 ~ 2017）：
A. The first productional fighter with AESA radar in Europe.
B. New weapons and equipments：Damocles XF, new members of AASM family.
C. RBE-2 AESA radar.
D. FSO-IT.
E. DDM-NG.
F. SATCOM data-link.
G. Spectra EWS upgrading.
H. Possible upgrading choice: HMD.
I. M88 TCO upgrading.
3. Rafale UAE（2013 ~ ）：
A. Possibly the first member of Rafale with thrust enhancement.
B. New weapon：Meteor BVRAAM.
C. The main electronic equipments should be the same as Rafale F3-O4T.
D. GMTT mode.
E. New M88 engine with thrust enhancement (20,000 Ib class).
F. RCS reduction.
G. Improvement in weapon load capability at tropic area（SCALP-EG*3 + 2,000 L tank*2 + AAM*4）。
4. Rafale Batch 5（2018 ~ 2023）：
A. Possibly the first member of Rafale with active stealthy techonology.
B. New weapon：Meteor BVRAAM.
C. Upgrading RBE-2 AESA radar（GaN？？）+/- side-looking airborne radar antenna.
D. GMTT mode.
E. OSF-NG（Techonology of laser radar image？？）.
F. DDM-NG upgrading.
G. Upgrading for Data Fusion／SATCOM.
H. Upgrading for SPECTRA EWS.
I. Other possible upgrading choices: Active stealthy techonology, LDIRCM, HMD-NG etc…..
5. Rafale MLU (Post-2020 to 2025…..)：
A. Mid-life upgrading for another 20 to 25 years.
B. Completely new radar and other sensor systems.
C. New M88 engine with thrust enhancement.
D. CFTs for combat range enhancement.
E. Major improvements in fighter’s stealth, EWS, and combat survivability.
F. Remote controller of UCAV.
toanThe standard QRA configuration of RAF’s Typhoon is: four AIM-120 (carried by the four conformal fuselage stations at the air-intake) + four AIM-132 (under the main wings) + one or two 1,000L tanks.
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/2DA55014-3293-469B-8ABA-BD23ACB18F1F/0/Typhoon2.jpg
toan>> I read France didn’t ship ordered Exocets to Argentine on Englands request, and provide information on the electronics of Exocet to England prior to the shooting.
ａ：
On the other hand, the French engineers had still integrated the only five AM-39 that Argentine had acquired at that time on to the Argentina Super Etendard just before the war happened.
Finally, the Argentine lost the war after the five AM-39 had been run out, the UK won the war with very high cost (2 ships destroyed + 1 ship damaged by the seven Exocets (AM-39 and MM-38) of Argentine), and the French Exocet has become the one of the most popular and successful ASM on earth since then…..
The biggest winner of this war: France………:D
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