Mirage 2000 ?
This one reminds me of that infamous F-22 ‘kill’ from a few years back. π
NOT from Check6 but THIS forum and THIS topic and perhaps Mirage as well although i don’t know Rafale gun mode in HUD that i can remember, if it’s a Mirage it’s even better but i guess Rafale.


They even posted the link to here for clues, not every pictures they post there is from their simulations btw, many are real and this one is from a topic in the “Real aviation” section, posted by a guy called “Cougar”, D View .. Typhoon.
http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=157658
Also there might be a good reason for it to look similar since they would use thesame tactic. i.e a high yo-yo…
Rafale Γ Red Flag 08
envoyΓ© par armee-de-l_air. – Regardez plus de vidΓ©os de science.
Well this was quite a while ago.
Not only this but it wasn’t anything like reported as “greatly gratifying”.
The fact that Typhoon have more thrust isn’t relevant since it also is heavier btw but not everyone is ready to aknowlege this, and i take notice we still don’t know how much weight the strenghtened airframes of Typhoon T2/T3 have taken, this appears not to be relevant for some people…
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/layout/set/popup/content/view/full/169098
DGA magazine VISION on Rafale…
Horizontal…the only vertical maneuver was at the end after the F-5’s energy had been reduced to the point where it would not be able to follow the F-104 up.
Thanks a lot for your reply, it is always a teaching experience to communicate with someone who flew these things, so this is all about energy management rather than pure maneuvring in the turning fight sense of the term….
I couldn’t quiet figure the patern.
Did you ever had an encounter with Mig 21 or Mirage III?
Btw i knew F-104 was not AoA but g-limited, those of the GAF were redlined at 7.5 or 7.0 g.
Wrong again.
No, it is YOU who needs to pute two & two together.
Is that a FACT?
Length 51.5 ft
Height 14.2 ft
Wingspan 35 ft
Wing area 460 sq ft
Horizontal tail span 23 ft
Weight empty 29,300 lb
Maximum weight 70,000 lb class
Internal fuel 18,000 + lbs
Speed Mach 1.6 (~1,200 mph)
Range ~1.200 n. mi
Combat radius 610 n. mi
Power plant One P&W F135 or GE F136
Engine thrust 40,000 lb (with after burner)
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/f35/f-35specifications/f-35a-ctol-specifications.html
The Eurocanards were designed to be better 4th generation fighters than the US ‘teens’.
NO there was never any mention of US figthers in their requierements this is PURE invention as is most of what you post.
The concepts which guided their design was the same as it was for the US ‘teens’ just taken to a slightly higher level.
Absolutly NOT and btw, performance-wise F-35 design was taken to a lower level than LWF requierements.
BUT so long was their developement that some 5th generation like character were able to be included in their final design, such as reduce frontal RCS & improved MMI.
Revisionism, as expected.
The F-35 OTOH was designed to be a true next generation fighter rather than ‘just a better 4th generation fighter’. The concepts which guided its design being truly transformational in nature.
F-35 was designed as a STRIKE fighter, F-16 as a PURE air superiority fighter = LWF, with higher Mach and ceillings.
The Eurocanards are like the piston fighters of the mid 1940’s.
GEEEEEEEEESUS. π
Reaching the ‘pinnacle’ of their generation but no matter how much better they were than previous fighters, advances in technology & concepts of air combat had already passed them by & they simply could not compete with the next genration of fighters.
Now that’s the pinacle of the funny 2009 quote contest.

And these are NOT KPP but designed operational maximum or DASH; including the ceillings at which they are to be used.
KPPs have been published in other pages of L-M doc and well know what they are, they do not include Machs; thanks for amusing me.
Nite nite.
I’m a bit surprised that the Rafale defeated the Typhoon so many times. I’ve heard previous exercises were significantly more humbling for the French.
From which source and who’s French?
You’re talking about pilots learning their aircrafts still, remember?
What I’m more interested in is how did the Rafale perform against America’s finest? π The article implies that the Rafale only lost once out of a number of engagements, but does not definitively say that it won either (actually, to be perfectly correct, it only says that the Rafale was only in the Raptor’s sights, not that a kill was scored).
The kill was probably scored but if the F-22 scored only once it says a lot about the Rafales and their pilots…
Will we ever know? Probably not- these things are pretty hush-hush. I don’t think the US likes losing, and it would be incredibly bad form anyway to go about crowing about simulated kills against your allies.
Oh yes we will, they start talking now and it is not going to please a lot of people. π
Yes says me. And what? How technical was this very post of you?
Sorry mate, as usual YOU start a flame bate and complain when people ask you to come square, it’s a lot asking for someone who YET another time have posted an innacurate information no?
You keep making allegations after allegations against other forum members, the latest on Arthuro posts in this topic, on Rafale’s M comments at the Paris airshow and are making a strongly sustained habit of it while never managing to make a technical point stay up because you can’t.
This is WHAT.
We know us since more than 4 years now and we certainly had more than enough discussions and we both know how they ended up.
Yeah. Your usual spining, twisting, reality and fact denial, “trolls” calling, we all know that and when it is not enough smear is the next best thing, when that fails the last ressorts is palying the poor victim of bad, insulting trolls.
How insulting is it from you to allege that everyone else here is actually doing what YOU do when you can’t keep up by lack of knowlege or simply because you canot deny FACTS that you do not like?
I see no reason to repeat that for the sake of forum peace and as I know that it is a waste of time.
Like you give a damned about forum peace! π
If you did you wouldn’t bother making allegations against others in a permanent basis and not only ONE person but virtualy everyone who posts something which is not going your way on the Rafale/Typhoon topic.
Make out of that what you want and throw as much dirt as you want, it neither impresses me nor does it make any of your claims more true or wrong and neither mine.
I do NOT make out things… YOU do, i make technical points, posts archives demonstrating how little you guys knew about Typhoon and Rafale, .i.e reasons for the long moment arm, %age of instability, possible turning performances, supercruise, technical characteristics of the close-coupled canards, avionics and system upgrades, Rafale politico-Industrial history and requierements etc.
All of which you obiously jumped up and down trying to derail any proper technical debate because you do not have the proper knowlege base or canot prove otherwise and more to it because reality didn’t fit the forum legends repeatedly posted in several forums among which this one.
Don’t complain if people rub your nose with your inventions such as Typhoon canards used in the roll axis (been told by a GAF specialist), Kenametic energy and the rest, it’s your lot not that of others and certainly not a reason for smear and allegation you are of course unwilling to prove because YOU makes them up, just like you made up this paranoiac comment you land to Arthuro.
I read his comments when he posted it and he was very careful not to invole himself, i would reproch him to be too litle opiniated if anything and he is always polite, so don’t try to tell everyone you are the victim here you are the perpetrator yourself.
BTW he thaught you were a friend and that the alleged “troll” was the bad guy, perhaps he will see you under your real light after this, as for me i’m ready to face the music any time i don’t look for escuses and can prove what i say including the facts i accuse you of, so don’t tempt me. 
Cheers
Why should someone prove him wrong, if his own sources often contradict him self or don’t support his assertions? :p
SAY YOU.
Again; instead of adding to the usual smear, you’re more than welcome to put your money where your mouth is, because you only prove my point today and never managed to prove yours before.
None of you ever managed to prove his points wrong either, deny the sources, facts spin twist and the rest yes, the usual tactics, then smear when everythnig else fails.
You in particular have a nack for denial and never could show these points to be wrong, even now by suggesting that “his own sources often contradict him self or don’t support his assertions” you only can add to the usual mediocrity of the smear we’ve seen for years, so go and prove it please.
It’s much easier to do smear than research work and even more so, comprehend what is necessary to know in order to do better.
Good luck with the technical, the smear and other flaming technics, we all can do. Cheers. π
Just another HuD shot from the check-six forums.
NO actually, they got thepicture from THIS topic and even gives the link to it, would be convenient for you, validating your smear about others and confortingyou in the idea that Typhoon is only second best to Rafale after all, anyway we got news for you…
EF’s wing can take speeds of M1.65+ while still keeping Mach wave in front of the leading edge (without significant drag buildup), so I guess we’ll see its SC value rising with improved(?) engines, in the future.
I have always maintained that the limit was that of the EJ200 dynamic pressure, the bow wave, though might not induce a level of drag significant enough to slow it that much (havent been looking into it that deep yet), see F-22 perfs.
the link doesn’t work for me, I guess it’s linked to some paid abo or similar π
http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-romain/index.php/2009/11/27/154660-atlc
It did work for me i saved the page as one of my favs (and i checked, it still works)…
After about 6 reversals, I pulled into the vertical, the F-5 couldn’t follow me, and I rolled into his six. Done deal. The other F-104 pilot enjoyed a similar outcome.
Alfakilo, i have a question for you; did your reversals occurs ONLY on the horizontal plan or did they involve some degree of vertical separation as well?
Cheers.
From a french rafale pilot (captain) :
http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-romain/index.php/2009/11/27/154660-atlc
That’s a pretty good digging, congrats and thanx! π
[ironic]
As the US LO fighters are undetectable according our dear F-22/35 fanboys how can a non LO fighter attack them at all BVR, let alone a pilot be aware of their presence? :p[/ironic]
Gee. I can’t start to imagine what it’s going to be like the day an European fighter will manage to detect and lock on F-35 before its pilots sees it…
I tell you what Scorpion, i personaly think Germany and France are on the lucky side of the deal…. π
If you don’t have an HOBS allround LOAL capability you are still required to manoeuver to get the target within the missile seekers envelope.
True and HOBS allround LOAL needs a true HOBS AAM to achieve the sort of kill which would requier it to turn at high speed/high g and hit a target 180*behind you, expecially if this target is close or closing on you.
Huh… You’re taking your dreams for reality because I was never banned, sorry. And don’t bring me in this (childish) topic either. In case you didn’t notice, I was quiet up to now. Who’s the culprit then ? π‘
Well OPIT, now that Fonk Gegene Lordassap are the ultimate insults you can understand why people are called names in this forum.
It’s easy, never make your points stick, flame politely with “i’ve been told” stories, call people trolls regardless of the quality of their post.
After a while they’ bound to get ennoyed and might well throw one or two at you which will result in their post been deleted or them been banned, reason for the Mods to be called called to witness how bad you behave when it happens.
Problem is; not one of the plainitfs have ever managed to prove Fonk Gegene Lordassap points wrong, even less the sources he posted and with time it looks like after all he was right no?
Expect more flaming in the future if you are a Rafale supporter. :rolleyes:
last i heard f-22 had problems with obsolite components…
LOL! Looks like you know little about them.
Btw it is in Europe where technologic breakthroughs are made in the IR department and for your stament you’ll figure that even in the F2 standards, Rafale avionics are either of the same generation or newer.
The FACT that F-35 is years late doesn’t mean that single channel/bandwidth IR technologies are superior to multi-colour/Multi Channel dedicated A2A systems, looking newer and being fited on a newer airframe doesn’t make the technology.
Try to inform yourself properly. π
Sign
last i heard f-22 had problems with obsolite components…
That of Rafale and Typhoon too, meaning there are a LOT of avionics and systems upgrades he never heared of.