Originally Posted by HME
“Twist and spin”…..
As to 2012 Rafale, whatever it does, it won’t out-accelerate EVERYTHING else, and it won’t out-climb EVERYTHING else. Nor will it out-turn everything else (out turn MiG-29OVT, F-22, Typhoon, Pitts Special, PC-21?) at all speeds and altitudes, instantaneous and sustained, in all flight regimes.

LOL! When i think this guy is writing this manure behind the protection of being anonymous, then sign with calling people cowards, i guess some have unsolved issues and end up in the internet venting some.:diablo:

@HME: We’re DONE with your “I’ve been told” LEGENDS and discguting smear and LIES, you got thas straight?

You know NO one, you go nowhere, cant read anything else than English (certainly not an Assemblee Nationale report) and are specialised in inventing stuff for the french bashers in every single forum where you can find audience, you keep INVENTING and never EVER post anything remotly accurate nor bother to prove it…

Now please, post your fans the PM with details from unknameable contacts and “people you know” where Typhoon didn’t get beaten in the UAE and where Rafale vs F-22 were oh so predictable…

merlin2
Pls exclude the F-22 and include everything else !

No need for this the 1/7 pilots already proved my point in the UAE and even before, Rafale is more maneuvrable than the Raptor today by virtue of the laws of phyisics, this, SMEAR canot beat.

Air to air gunnery is the subject that I taught as a FWS instructor…it’s a complicated subject and not easy to generalize about.

While the Mirage III gun system was inherently better than the GSh-23 (better gunsight, better muzzle velocity, larger round and mounted in an aircraft that had better visibility over the nose), the real difference was in the quality of the respective pilots…the Israeli pilots as a rule were (and are) better trained and better motivated.

Yeah!

Thanks for correcting me, i should have remembered this GSh-23 spelling, at the time i was a kid (15 when flying first solo) still building model kits and my fav was a 1/48 Mig-21 that i took to the airclub for the W-E.

It is then he answered my questions about it, he had flown the trainer two years previous to that when they visited the Normandy Niemen in Reims.

He wrote to me several time when i was at the Air Cadet school at Nimes for example he explained what was this “morotcyble” grip on the Ouragan throttle, a setting for the visual clue in the gunsignt changing the size of the star, giving you a better idea of the target distance.

This guy was incredible.

thats what i heard, as well as the specs given to the gov, raaf pilots also flew the planes, i tried to google it, but nothing, the air 6000 was cut short when we decidded the f-35 was best for us
here is something not a lot know, usa offered us the f-22 at the time (and probably the UK) but we knocked it back on cost and our requirement
i did find that we also looked at the gripen
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRNews1/FRNews02/FR020203.htm
Air 6000 project. Australia issued the RFI last year, for technical information about the Gripen swing-role fighter to meet its national defense needs from 2012 and beyond. Gripen International has submitted technical information based on the supply of Gripen

Thank you!

http://richard.feeser.over-blog.com/

The Best..!
Les dernières manœuvres aériennes dans les Émirats Arabes Unis (Air Tactical Leadership Course) , associant en raid air-sol, ou opposant en combat aérien air-air, plusieurs chasseurs modernes comme le Rafale français, le Typhoon britannique et le Raptor américain, ont permis de montrer la nette supériorité du Rafale en tout domaine.

Grâce à une excellente disponibilité opérationnelle, des patrouilles de quatre Rafale ont été engagées contre les Typhoon de la RAF qui n’ont pas pu résister malgré l’emport d’un armement air-air fictivement dégradé par les Rafale….
Profitant de ses capacités de détection et d’identification à grande distance (40 km), le Rafale a aussi tiré son épingle du jeu contre le F22 Raptor, se montrant plus manœuvrant.

De plus, lors d’une mission air-sol, un Rafale a pu traiter six objectifs distants en un temps record par AASM (air-sol modulaire), tout en tirant trois missiles air-air Mica sur les intercepteurs adverses.

Remarquons que tous les pilotes en présence étaient hautement qualifiés sur leur type de machine.

Ne doutons pas que cette démonstration de supériorité aérienne multi cible jouera en faveur du Rafale dans les difficiles négociations commerciales en vue de son exportation dans les pays du Golfe, au Brésil et ailleurs.

http://richard.feeser.over-blog.com/

e Best ..!
Latest aerial maneuvers in the United Arab Emirates (Air Tactical Leadership Course), combining in-ground air raid, or opponent in air combat air to air, many modern fighters like the French Rafale, the Typhoon and the Raptor British American led show the clear superiority of the Rafale in any field.

With excellent operational availability, patrols of four Rafale have been brought against the Typhoon of the RAF could not resist despite carrying an air-air weapons fictitiously degraded by Rafale ….

Taking advantage of its capabilities for detection and identification at long distance (40 km), the Rafale also pulled out of the game against the F22 Raptor, being more maneuvering.

Furthermore, during a mission air-ground, a Rafale could deal with six goals apart in record time by AASM (modular air-ground), while firing three air-to-air interceptors on Mica opponent.

Note that all drivers in attendance were highly skilled on the type of machine.

Do not doubt that this demonstration of air superiority will target multiple for the Rafale in the difficult trade negotiations for its export to Gulf countries, Brazil and elsewhere.

Richard FEESER
Born in Moutiers in Savoy, Richard tale is very early attracted by the world of aviation. Her childhood was bathed by the clap-clap of Bell helicopters coming down the mountains to land on the sports field adjoining the house, and the rumble of heavy four-crossing the Alps, which he lends dream destinations. He devours books relating to aviation exploits of Mermoz and Guillaumet or those of Rocio Durcal in the fabulous “Circus” and assembles many aircraft models, including that of the Mirage III that will drive much later. Student at the Technical Military Academy Preparatory Le Mans, then at the military school of La Fleche, it accesses the preparatory classes to high schools with the ambition to integrate the school of the air. This is done in 1968 when he joined Salon de Provence with promoting “Rene Bigand. His dreams become reality aviator, with a preference for fighter aircraft where they will be realized fully. He made a career in the Air Force as a fighter pilot and reconnaissance, occupying all levels of responsibility of this specialty, to that of Chief of Patrol. During his spare time, he regularly attends the flying clubs to completely satisfy his passion on light aircraft and gliders.
Its operational life busy, with over 4,500 flying hours on many types of devices, including more than 2000 hours on Mirage III, allows him to address all missions of combat aviation, but also those of military airlift on Transall twin, and Alouette helicopters and Fennec. After operational training on F100 Super Saber to the 11th Fighter Wing at Toul, he is a pilot in the 33rd Wing Recognition Strasbourg on Mirage III R and RD commands a squadron of Air Defense, the 2 / 10 ‘Seine’ “Hunting Club of Paris” in Creil, the Mirage III C, is the last Chief of Operations of the 10th Wing Hunt (Mirage III and Mirage F1C) before its dissolution in 1985. Then, the Division Commander Flight School of the air, on-Fouga Magister, he is responsible for training flight sub-lieutenant in the Air Force, the midshipmen of Aeronautics Navy and many foreign cadets. Patentee of the College of Air War, he commanded the Air Base 181, Roland Garros, Saint Denis, Reunion (1992-1994), the French elements in Chad, N’Djamena (1996-1997), and occupies important functions in central staff, management of military personnel of the Air Force, and the Joint Defense College, where he handed over power to younger. Retired as Colonel after 32 years of active service, he now involved in community life. A lover of history, he participated in the drafting of various aeronautical publications, and Aérobibliothèque to remain in “the wind propellers. He is the author of several novels and writings show with humor the myriad facets of her life as a globe-trotter, curious about everything. Medal of aeronautics, he holds several French and foreign decorations.

Could i have a PM too Jack? 😀

we did a 3 year evaluation
the air 6000 evaluation of Joint Strike Fighter, the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, F-16C/B60 and F/A-18E/F
the decission was that the f-35 was the clear winner for us and we would go with just one aircraft

I never heared of Australia even flight-testing Rafale so i guess i’ll have to trust you on this one, do you have any source on possible published results (for those who were flying at the time of course)?

I still wonder what this crap with SC is about. Depending on condition, a flight with first stage AB can be more economical than squeezing the last sh!t out of military power juist to brag about SC numbers.

That’s what you got when people can’t comprehend limits and what they really mean.

Sustained supercruise only makes sense in the most economical regime and this is hardly M1.78 for the F-22 even if this number was true.

It have been briefly put up on the USAF website page, (i got the two versions) but questions remains; the empty weight was that of a Mirage 2000 and they changed the page by now.

If it’s a short-term value only, then it does not constitute ANY operational advantage because in emergency other aircraft can make it even much more faster with engaged AB.

True, so the distinction between cruise, Operational Maxis and DASH is clearly not understood by everyone.

I have tried to explain what the US standard were for these by posting informations from the Edward AFB Flight Test Center but he, these guys knows better than those who writes the book for the USAF.

As i said by their standards our Mirage 2000 does M 2.5, bye bye F-22…:diablo:

Personally i would like to have an excercize free of ROE, other than the area of excercize and see what happens.

In principle i agree with you, that you can’t make an aircraft that will excell in every possible role, in every possible condition.

There always are ROE (even in real combat situations) and they are not designed to handicap one aircraft in particular but generaly help the pilots going through the whole exercise/mission without going through the “bubble”, collide or fly their jet into the ground.

Beside they are the same for everyone.

In principle i agree with you, that you can’t make an aircraft that will excell in every possible role, in every possible condition.

All you can do is drawing a set of requiered specs (procurement agencies does that for you) and develop your design so as to make sure your design solutions, aerodynamic arrangements and structural design points works together to achieve the best resulting perfs possible from these specs.

Not one of us would ever deny Typhoon forte; supersonic acceleration and sustained turn rates, simply because it was designed AND optimised for this purpose, all it needs is an even better engine (as does the Rafale) to come closer to F-22 in the S/C dpt.

Joyeux Noel…

L’armée de l’air recrute
envoyé par armee-de-l_air. – Les derniers test hi-tech en vidéo.