firstly all but the last quote were thobbs

And to be fair the Falklands was the last air war where no side had air superiority and if this was the case today SU-30/35 or not CAS will still be needed and at this time that means fast air getting in and out at low level. I have never said that UAV’s will not get there one day. as I side before at this time there is a need for a good GR type able to react from QRA or CAP to give much need support until other assets can take over

I also don’t see UAV’s taking over the hole role until at lest 2040 if ever

Every day in Afghan and now in Mali there are 100’s of troop movement in addiction to the manned compounds large and small groups of troops moving up to the fighting line or on recce patrols. Commander Ade Orchard wrote that harriers on QRA were called on daily to give CAS to troops on patrol or in compounds until other assets could take over and stay on task longer. What’s got me is that while I am happy to recognise the need and ability of UAV’s the UAV fan club can not and will not see the need for good fast air CAS.

Absolutely correct!

It is extremely expensive to establish a 24/7/365 CAS orbit, especially with short endurance airplanes.

A short endurance airplane might be able to spend 2 hours on orbit (Iraq & Vietnam experience). The CAS orbit can be extended to 6 hours on-station by inflight refueling (requires a squadron of expensive tankers). With tanking, 8 short endurance airplanes are needed to maintain each CAS orbit. Without tanking, you would need 24 airplanes to maintain a 24/7 orbit (accounting for transit time aborts and maintenance).

During the initial stages of Operation Enduring Freedom, the USAF used JDAM equipped B-52s in the CAS role because they could double cycle and stay on station 12+ hours. Even so, it still required 3 B-52s to maintain a 24/7 orbit.

The US rushed Predators and Reapers to Afghanistan to lessened the cost burden because a 4 airplane detachment can maintain a 24/7 orbit indefinitely. UAVs burn fuel at half the rate of a fast jet and don’t require a squadron of expensive tankers.

To summarize the need per CAS orbit:

• Manned, short endurance airplanes without tanking = 24 CAS airplanes
• Manned, short endurance airplanes with tanking = 8 CAS airplanes + tankers
• Long endurance UAVs = 4

While you may have dreams of sexy manned airplanes performing CAS missions, they are damned expensive.

Armed UAV’s can and do carry out support of troops on the ground but have limited payloads and once they have dropped they payload they are still needed to keep eyes on and if more support is need it is a job for a ground attack aircraft with a good payload and at this time UAV’s due to the need to stay on station for long stints are slow have limited payload’s and take time to set up and at this time I think there is a trust issue with UAVs that I have said before is being put right by operations in Afghan but please don’t belittle the need for good fast air in ground operations. As for dreams that is where your sexy UAV’s came from and war is damned expensive 😉

Moderator can you close this thread down and move the post to the other thread by the same name 🙂