It was the Optica’s appearance in the 1980’s sci-fi film ‘slipstream’ that first brought this wonderfully eccentric British contraption to my attention.

the first time I saw them they came on a lorry with the jigs and spare parts plus three FLS Sprint’s in bits and there jigs

Project Saucepan is a C-47TP/C-212/C235 replacement programe, encompassing both the light/medium transport and maritime surveillance (not maritime patrol) roles.

The 2013/14 budget may start to reflect this project. Eads, Raytheon and SAAB have been making noises about their respective products, but I can’t see how the SAAB 340 MSA or Beech 350ER, both aimed at the maritime surveillance role, could replace the medium transport role.

For me it appears that the EADS CASA C295 is the forerunner to take this. The main concern with that platform is that it doesn’t have the range to patrol the prince Edward Islands group EEZ, 1800 km south of Port Elizabeth on South Africa’s SE coast. 60 Sqn used to fly there with their Boeing 707’s, after the Shackletons retired, but the 707’s have been retired now themselves.

I guess that is why the maritime patrol option is being kept open for a different platform.

Basically, there were 8 A400M’s on order, now cancelled. The requirement hasn’t gone away, and so it may yet still be ordered. The requirement being that an airlift capability is required that can transport an Oryx (and Rooivalk) without having to remove the gearbox first, and the capability to deliver 20 tons of cargo anywhere in sub-saharan Africa wihout having to refuel.
Denel are also part of the manufacturing process of the A400M, so let us see what transpires…

It appears the 8 C-130BZ’s are good to go until the 2015-2020 timeframe.

Saucepan seeks to replace 3 different types, so between the maritime surveillance and transport airframes, you might be looking at around 20 aircraft.

Finally, there is strong speculation that the SAAF may deploy the Rooivalk attack helicopter to the DRC to support the Oryx and troop deployment.

As far as Prince Edward Islands C295 can make the distance on paper but I don’t think I would want to if you loss an engine its an long way from home. But as an transport type it would be good for the SAAF and if they were to order 3 or 4 A400M they may start to get them in 2020

Wilhelm do you think the SAAF needs 8 A400Ms and would the SAAF look at something like NATO’s 757 combi

Let’s look at this point by point

1) Lack of pilots for combat fleet. This may be due to lack of spending or lack of leadership/planning and it is something all air forces have suffered in the past last year in the UK the RAF only put through 200 candidates for officer and NCO aircrew and so the system and staff are being used to vet VRT officers

2) Inability to maintain*flight*hours for pilots due to funding and staff shortages. Again this is something all air forces are suffering in some form

3) *Inability to pay electricity bills for some SAAF stations. This is just poor management

4) Ageing transport/maritime patrol fleet (C-130BZ, C-47TP) with no replacement in site. This in my view is the biggest problem for the SAAF at this time and I feel they should look at a new transport fleet of 3 A400m’s and 10 C295’s of which 4 should be MPA’s as a start and if the cost is to high maybe as a stop gap replace 6 of the C295’s with BAE 146m these are not as fixable but working on the cost of the RAF ones would only cost around £45 million for the six air frames and if brought in service around 2015 might just make 2030 at a push.

5) No maintenance contracts post March 2013 – big layoffs at Denel as a result. Denel’s needs to look outside SA for contracts such as Ecuador

6) Issues with rampant ill discipline. Discipline only comes from good leadership and training

7. Loss of highly trained staff to civil market. Again something all air forces suffer from

8. Even acquisition of new uniforms a problem. Last year the UK MOD had big problems with uniform acquisition due to new contacts

And last of all ongoing corruption scandals involving arms procurement. Please show a country that is not suffering from this .

In all the SAAF has issues but it has some good kit it needs a new transport fleet and in 2020 will also need to start looking at it helicopter transport fleet so only time money and good leadership will tell

At this time is there any movement by Morocco to deploy F-16’s or Mirage F-1 2000’s to this campaign

Really? Have you studied where A-10s have been operating during conflicts? In the thick of it during Iraq 1991 and 2003 in high MANPAD threat areas. It didn’t curtail there use even when they took losses and damage. They also operated over Libya and Yugoslavia. Tough old birds able to take considerable combat damage.

I would say this is what the a A-10 was build for troop support and as said losses and all they keep coming its there job

2 Winners

St Helena airport is due to open 2016. There’s some uncertainty about the runway length in the reports I’ve read. It was going to be 1550 metres, but it’s now going to be longer – but how much longer? It’ll be capable of handling Boeing 737s, but not necessarily A330s.

I feel as the UK is paying for it it could be a lost opportunity if the runway is not long enough to make it a second staging port

Anyone have any information on the helicopter pilot that lost his life? Type of aircraft, did it go down etc?

RAF definitely positioning itself to beg for another C17 or two with this move to provide logistical support. I could have sworn a couple of months ago we were buying extra transport planes because we didn’t have enough to support Afghan as it is.

the 146’s come on line early this year to support the 2014 draw down from Afhgan that not to say the C-17’s of 99 are not over worked already I bet the French wish they had the A 400 M right now as we had hoped for 2014