Chaps this was talked about in the future UK MPA/ASW thread page 3 on this forum the Hec option was off the table due to UK C-130 out of service date 2022/25 I like the Bac 146 option but it is most peoples opinion that a off the self type is best
Ideally I think it should go like this.
Canada does the maths again – Orders Super Hornet like for like +1 total 78 aircraft. At the same time with savings made over the F-35 they order the following. Also offers the ability to use tankers already in service.
5 x C-295AEW&C ordered first
19x C-295MPA to replace the CP-140 & CP-140a ordered in the next 5 yearsI really can’t understand why they don’t have thier own AWACS but this mix while not matching the E-3 offers value for money and ease of support with same base aircraft.
I would agree with the need for AEWaC and C295 for the job however I see the need for 12 C295M to replace the 6 C-115 buffalo search & rescue and 6 to complement the C130 J force as the older H airframes are retired. As for the CP-140’s which are at this time going on to 2020 I don’t think the C295MPA has the range and they need something with longer legs. When it comes to the fighter fleet it is now quite interesting because if F35 is on the table the need for twin engine fighters is not so important as it once was and that means Gripen E/F could come in to play however I also think F-18E/F/G would be a good fit for the RCAF and if they where to buy F-18 I feel a good split would be 70 E 30 F 12 G
I think we have lost our way with this thread with all this talk of they did we did she did rubbish. I think the 3 main questions in the opening statement should read
1) How will Europe fair without US support in strategic -tactical transport and air to air refuelling*ISR, E3, ELINT, SEAD/DEAD
2) Can or will Europe be able to conduct operations without US help.
3) Can Europe project power in say the Pacific if needed in say a policing operation?
My answer is
1) Europe has 156 A400m’s on order plus at this time 45 tankers of which most will be replaced by new MRTT’s the UK also has 8 C-17s plus European air forces have a good number of C130 and smaller transports types, at this time Europe has 25 E-3 and the UK has a good ISTAR capability
2) Europe is more than capable of conducting operations without US help if its politicians stopped point scoring
3) As I said earlier the UK – France and Italy can or will be able to send carrier groups and if Europe had the foresight it could build and operate 1 maybe 2 carriers with each country supplying 1 warship to the European carrier group also once the said MRTT’s and A400m’s are on line troop movement and supply would be essayer
The biggest problem for Europe is its politicians it has the capability and the power but not the unity.
How long will it before there is a real need for troop carrying helicopters and or MERT helicopters and if the need is identified who will supply them as this is possibly another area the French are lacking at this time. The UK is at this time hard pressed with the puma fleet in upgrade and Merlin and Chinook fleets hard worked in A-stan that only really leaves the poor old Navy HC4 Sea Kings but again this would be more mission creep for the UK. Who has any real capability in this area
Sorry remove the Spanish light carrier but the Italians have 2 carriers that still leaves 5 European carriers and 4 helicopter carriers at this time and the French are looking for a new carrier.
I understand the want to keep the number of types down however at this time with the low %GDP if we look at the 757 combi as a types that could have good value when we take in account
Cost $65million in 2002 (Probably less today) A400m $181million today
Load 37 tons on 15 pallets or 200 people A400m 30 tons
Range 3150 nm with said loads A400m 2450 nm with said load
Speed 458 knots A400m 421 knots
Add to this the optional supplemental fuel tank in the aft lower hold and if you were to let Denel carry out the fitting of two Cobham 905E on the wings you could have a useful type small MRTT that could also carry out VIP work and maybe get them at 3 for 1 A400m so again maybe 7 A400m’s and 5 757’s for the price of 9 A400m’s and not over work the 400m’s
Which ever side wins if they want to rebuild the air force at this time the only real model open to them is that of Pakistan and a J-10B – JF-17 mix to support the Mig-29’s already in service and allowing them to off load the Mig 21/23/25 and the SU 22/24 they had already started to replace the trainer fleet with an order for the MFI-17 basic trainer and 36 Yak 130 but they also need to sort out there transport fleet if the 4 Il-76 survive they will need supporting with as many as 10 new light transport types. At this time Syria has no AEWaC platform and its attack helicopter force will also need replacing so all in all a lot of money that will not be around straight away
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