I do believe Vintage Wings of Canada’s Lysander will most likely fly this year (that’ll make 2 airworthy over here)
The Sabina Old Timer’s Collection Lysander should be flying too, it was having engine runs towards the end of 2009.
Spitfire PL965 was there, I recall, for the last big (windy) Spitfire gathering.
Aye – think it was flown by Carl Schofield, but I may be wrong.
As for the original poster’s question, it’d be nice to see the Biltema Spitfire XVI & XVIII over for the September show. Rod Dean flew the XVIII at ‘Legends ’09, so it isn’t too much of a stretch to imagine a return appearance for the BoB show.
You are right – it was for its first Dx appearance under Hangar 11 ownership and the second and most recent one was flown by PT (2008 ?).
‘Twas 2006 (how time flies!), PT was in the second box-four, led by the then HFL owned Spitfire XIV and accompanied by the Seafire and Grace Spitfire. I have a habit of remembering random details like that, for better or worse…
As ever the only worthwhile Airshow at Dx last year was Legends once again due to it being a private run show.
IMHO this years BoB will not be on the same grand level as 2000, as the museum it seems just does’nt have the cash, as with all Airshows in the UK with the current £ problems
Chances are you’re right, the BoB show won’t be as numerically impressive as a decade ago. Hardly surprising; an awful lot has changed in 10 years! Still, bigger doesn’t necessarily mean better – we’ve seen plenty of superb BoB sequences at Duxford and Shoreham over the past few years which have “only” included 4-10 Spitfires. It’s all about the imagination and impact, to name but two factors. The key is making the most of the assets you have, and I have no doubt that Duxford will succeed in putting on a memorable show.
Also, I’m going to have to disagree with you on the non-Legends Duxford shows. The May display had the potential to be a classic IWM show, but the weather left the programme battered. Despite the numerous cancellations, it was still a top notch show. September and October may have been lacking in imagination, thus giving them a feeling of “seen it all before”, but they were undoubtedly entertaining shows with some wonderful flying, as ever. I for one would be sorely disappointed if they did away with the IWM shows – they’re a British airshow tradition!
“Seen it all before” is how all the IWM shows now are.
Legends is the only one worth going to.
Thats because TFC run it.
Sadly the IWM shows lack funds ,imagination, or interest.
I attended all the Duxford Based shows last year and IMHO a major rethink is needed by the IWM.
I’d agree that a change of tac would be welcome, but when they’re still drawing good sized crowds, I doubt it’ll happen. That said, another few shows with figures like those on the Sunday of the September 2009 event, and they may be forced into a change. When punters vote with their feet, how long can they hold off on mixing up the format? Will regular visitors who don’t go for the museum continue to pay £30+ for 3 hours of flying, when you can see double that at, say, Biggin Hill for a similar (possibly lower?) price?
Stephen White had the right idea in 2001, injecting enthusiasm, originality and imagination into the September event. Such a shame we only got to see one of his shows – I can only imagine what the following years may have looked like had he remained as show organiser.
I have fond memories of when they had this playing in the Motion Dynamic Simulator (to quote the ‘technical’ name!) in Hangar 1 at Duxford. Good fun as a child, quite exciting being thrown around in your seat – also a fine educational aid for those wishing to feel even 1/10th of the dogfight “experience”. It’s a shame they got rid of it.
…and a further post of mine from later in that thread, elaborating on a few points.
Just to clarify, I’m not suggesting that change is needed at British airshows; recent crowd figures have certainly shown the popularity of such events in the UK. There is no need to ‘reinvent the wheel’ as such, but there’s still scope for originality without compromising the attributes that make airshows popular to the general public.
Take Stephen White’s Duxford 2001 airshow. His idea was simple – to present many of the vintage aircraft in set pieces, routines and formations reflecting the way in which they were flown in their historical context. He tied it all together by presenting the theme of the airshow – Air Assault – by charting the history of one particular squadron, using the aircraft flown by said squadron to show the development of ‘Air Assault’ from World War One through to the present day. This also allowed him to tie in a couple of sub-themes, such as a Hawker tribute.
The line-up itself was excellent, yes, but other than the Apaches, there was nothing that hadn’t been seen at Duxford, or elsewhere, before. But it was the way in which the theme(s) of the show were sold to the crowd by the programme, the commentary and the story being told in the air that made it a ‘special’ show, which lives long in the memory. To give a couple of examples, the Hawker tribute saw the Shuttleworth Collection’s Hawker Cygnet flying past the crowd as the ‘prototype’ Hunter roared past, further and higher from the crowd, showing barely 30 years of aviation development in one pass. Then you had the sequence showing the development of fighter tactics, from the aerial combat of WWI to the box-four of Hurricanes (complete with the ‘weaver’) before transitioning to a finger-four arrival and tailchase of four Spitfires. All the while, the commentators put over the ideas – both thematically and contextually – that Stephen had striven to portray. Later in the day, we had a Dakota parachute drop, a 2x Apache & Harrier formation set to ‘Carmina Burana’ and a host of other aircraft, almost all of which fit neatly into the ‘Air Assault’ theme. They even had the Red Arrows flying before the show.
They took what could have been a standard show of solos and the odd formation and turned it into something bigger. An event that told a story – that educated, rather than entertained. Isn’t that something worthwhile for the younger generations? Without being preachy or patronising, they told the story of the development of one particular area of aviation history.
My point is that it is possible to present aircraft in unique and interesting ways without dilluting the content and removing the crowd pleasing acts. Not just so the enthusiasts can see some unusual formations, but to turn a standard airshow into something that will stand out for years to come, that may even inspire people.
It could be argued that families and general visitors would “stay away in their droves”, should an organiser be bold enough to mix things up a little and move away somewhat from the traditional crowd pleasing acts. There are plenty of smaller shows that draw good sized crowds without even having the traditional crowd pleasers. Take Little Gransden and Sywell – two airshows that present primarily vintage aircraft that would be of little interest to non-enthusiasts, yet they always get strong attendance figures. Little Gransden broke records last year with the amount of money raised for charity, so they must be doing something right.
I’m not even saying that organisers shouldn’t book the popular display acts; like I say, why reinvent the wheel? But that doesn’t mean you can’t do something a little different with the other aircraft you have. Biggin Hill, for example, portrayed a Battle of Britain dogfight with the Buchon and Spitfire TIX, utilising air raid siren sound effects to turn a standard Buchon solo into an ‘airfield attack’. It was essentially an ordinary tailchase, but by presenting it as a dogfight set-piece, it adds a little originality to the proceedings. East Kirkby did something similar earlier this month that looked, from the YouTube clips I’ve seen, like it worked a treat. You also have Carolyn Grace’s Spitfire solo and Nigel Lamb’s MH434 displays, the bookends of the show, both flying to music and thus coming across as “more” than just a Spitfire display. The music added that emotional edge to it, in my opinion, and showed how effectively musical accompaniment can be.
As for ground acts, there is scope for development here. The re-enactor encampment at Shoreham is a good example of how effective such ground attractions can be at adding a bit of historical context for the general public, whilst allowing for some evocative photographs featuring period-dressed airmen and the like. It sets the scene and gives that particular area of the aircraft part a unique atmosphere. Looking at some of the ways Goodwood create that atmosphere all over their showground made me realise how simple it would be to do so at a mainstream airshow, with a bit of innovation. I’m not suggesting that all airshows should go for something completely different – not by any means – but if one or two venues decided to create an air and ground experience like no other, I’m sure it’d be popular with general public and enthusiast alike.
To elaborate a bit on exactly what I mean by that, one idea for next year (being the Battle of Britain 70th) could be to create a period Spitfire & Hurricane dispersal, complete with re-enactors, AA guns, searchlights, period vehicles, perhaps mock briefings – like what is seen at places like Shoreham and Goodwood, but on a larger scale. I could imagine it at somewhere like Biggin Hill or Duxford. Then, in the evening, have floodlights (positioned along the crowdline) illuminating the aircraft in the darkness as searchlight scour the skies for enemy aircraft. Throw in some music, pyrotechnics etc and you’ve got a totally unique experience. Sure, many people would run to the exit at the end, but other events – both in the UK and Europe – have proven that there are plenty of people who’d happily stay after the show; particularly if you were the market the day as more than just an airshow. Have a hangar dance in the evening, or live music. Maybe some lectures from veterans (could take place before the show) or pilots in the hangars. If some of the stalls and the food vendors remained open and there was plenty to see and do (maybe even a brief evening display, a la Goodwood 2009), I’m sure enough people would stay to make it worthwhile.
Omaka in New Zealand springs immediately to mind when thinking along this route, as they combine ground battles with aerial set-pieces. To quote from their website:
Classic Fighters is designed to be more than an airshow, our philosophy being to provide visitors with two full days of family entertainment in an event that is distinctly different and with a unique Marlborough flavour. Certainly the aviation theme will dominate, but the flying is combined with ground theatre, vehicles and set pieces to create a spectacle that all will enjoy.
Imagine Fokker Triplanes mixing it up in the sky with SE5as and Sopwiths, while troops fire original Krupps canons and attack from behind a WW1 tank, all amid the smoke and fire of pyrotechnics – and that is just WW1!
A range of exciting antique and classic open cockpit biplanes and vintage cabin airlines of the 1920s and 30s will represent ‘the Golden Age’ between the wars. Names like de Havilland, Percival, Ryan, TravelAir, Beechcraft Fleet and Stearman will be on display.
The warbirds of the Second World War always guarantee the colour, noise and spectacle that make a show a success. 2009 will see the iconic Spitfire, Mustang and Kittyhawk all represented, along with the PBY Catalina, DC3, Harvards, a taxiable Stuka replica and several ‘mystery’ types from overseas, participating in the exciting scenarios.
Formation aerobatics is always a real crowd pleaser. As well as the many privately owned aircraft from around the country, we can also expect the presence of the Air Force to inject some further ‘heavy metal’.
Back from the display line, visitors can take a break from the action and seek out a bargain in the trade stalls or be tempted with a glass of Marlborough wine and sample the delicious food on offer, while the kids explore the playground attractions.
Throughout the show there is a strong sense of fun and humour. To that end, each show is themed to not only give direction and meaning to the air show scenarios, but also to include the public and connect with them across a broader range of interests. Past Classic Fighters have included a North African theme (complete with a pyramid and belly dancers!); ‘France’ with its Eiffel Tower, Arc de Triomphe, onion sellers and berets; and also an ‘Aviation and the Movies’ theme, which opened the field wide for famous film scene recreations.
2009 is set for an Italian invasion. Glamorous sports cars will be on display and local providers will serve Italian inspired food. There will be lunchtime entertainment and the whole airfield will have the colour and vibrancy that comes with getting into the spirit of the event.
That is exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about. Families love it, enthusiasts can enjoy aircraft shown off in a different context and it provides a real experience; like being taken back in time, to throw in an old cliché.
Just because airshows are doing well financially, doesn’t mean there isn’t plenty of scope to develop certain areas – which, ultimately, would cater specifically to families and people looking for a full day of entertainment.
I have been trying not to comment here but ive been down the Pub an had a few beers!!!
One of the recurring coments seem to be that things are not as exciting as they use to be in the 70’s and 80’s!!!! Maybe thats because we as organisers now have to work within the bounds of CAP403 and the dreaded Health and Safety:rolleyes:
Also the constaints of what we would like to do and what we can afford is also an issue.
I constantly hear on here people bleating that Airshows are to expensive or not value for money! you carnt have both!
As an organiser trying to balance a “Good Show” with a budget that is knowhere near enough is a constant battle.
Maybe here’s an idea, if the Airshows currently offered do not “Float your boat” then try organising one of your own. You may find it harder than you think;)
Hey, just to throw it out there, I went to something like 25 events/airshows in 2009, had a great time at them all and have some wonderful memories. I’m not knocking the organisers and participants at all, and I have a great deal of respect for anyone who has the determination to make things happen in this day and age.
This thread was simply sparked (back in October last year, I think) by the many comments I’ve read in the past few years about British airshows being dull and boring – not sentiments I share, at all, but I thought it was a topic that could make an interesting area for discussion. Not so we could all bash airshows and the people who run them, simply so that we can share ideas on certain aspects we’d like to see developed and so on. I don’t think it’s offensive to those “in the business” to discuss such things…
Apologies if I’ve caused anyone offense, that certainly wasn’t my intent!
Sadly I expect the winter closure of the Land Warfare Hall and other hangars is based purely on cost grounds. By reducing the amount of public access the number of staff can also be reduced. Health and safety will dicated the number of staff required, as with RAFM Graham White open am / Battle Britain open pm. Closing the hangars will also save on heating and lighting costs, it just goes to show what a pittyfull state this country is in.
For the LWH/AAM, yes – but the other hangars have engineers working on the flying (and indeed, in Hangar 5’s case, the static) exhibits. Closing the hangars to the public won’t save on lighting and electricity, just staff members, surely?
First ‘Rage Against the Machine’ are bumped to the Christmas #1 slot, now this. Power to the people! 😀
I have been giving it some thought too. With the short winter days and the sparse attendance I’d say that concentrating the visitors there are in Airspace, AAFM, and Hangar 4 will give them a perfectly acceptable experience.
What I can’t figure is why 2 will be closed, since it has to be lit and heated anyway for the engineers
Moggy
All I can think of is that they don’t have enough staff to cover the whole site.
Unfortunately, there’s a common misconception that anyone who either isn’t enamoured by the Vulcan or has raised concerns regarding the project management wants the project to fail and see the aircraft grounded. We’re all entitled to our opinions, but it is quite sad to see anyone who doesn’t fall into the “pro-558” camp be branded a ‘hater’.
Of course, it couldn’t simply be that some people don’t “love” the Vulcan and some of us won’t be gutted if it doesn’t fly this year. Many other aircraft have come and gone, it’s the nature of the business. It’ll be a shame, yes, but despite the thoughts of some, I personally think there is a lot more to the British airshow scene than XH558.
My reading of pages of posts is that there are some who fall into that category, as inferred from what they write. If I am wrong, then so be it. I have branded no one a “hater” as you put it and I don’t think there are two camps. There are many with a foot on both sides.
As for your last sentence that is indisputable, even for Vulcan lovers, I’m sure.
To clarify, I wasn’t inferring that you’d branded anyone – more a general reference to the reactions of some, both on and off the internet.
I’m sure I read that one of the HFL grant conditions was that a paid workforce be in place to support the project. Not sure how the CAA would feel about something as complex as the Vulcan being maintained by unpaid volunteers either. Before someone shoots me down for getting my facts wrong, I happily admit that I’m not “expert”, nor do I pretend to be – simply going on what I remember reading before, rightly or wrongly.
I know – I was simply reflecting on a past comment from someone who knew the situation regarding the HFL’s requirement for paid workforce; with respect to the CAA’s position, I was simply stating my assumption, I have little knowledge of such matters! Not a dig at you, if that’s how it was construed… 🙂
Futhermore, astonishing as it may seem , however vociferous the opinions stated here and elsewhere, nobody is taking the slightest notice. Sorry.
I don’t think anyone assumed or thought they would…
Nothing wrong with expressing disappointment that a popular machine could possibly, at some point in the future, be departing the UK. Don’t see the problem of such opinions being aired on an aviation discussion board!