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qwerty

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  • in reply to: Swiss Hunters #2517534
    qwerty
    Participant

    Interesting. Thanks for the info.

    I am curious though……what do you mean by the innermost of the two outer underwing pylons? Without 3-inch rocket rails fitted, the Hunter has only four underwing hardpoints total.

    Do you just mean the same position that Swiss Hunters carried their AIM-9’s and AGM-65’s from?

    Rhodesian Hunters carried the AIM-9B at a point c.a. mid way between where the the Swiss Hunter depicted above carries it’s (250kg?) bomb and the 230 gallon tank. Basically the RhodAF aircraft seem to have had the standard Mod. 228 wing but acquired a third a hard-point located between the two usual ones at some point in their carreers. Keep in mind that the Rhodesian Hunters were heavily modified by the RhodAF so perhaps they recycled one of the 3″ rocket rail attachment points for as a hard-point for light loads? I simply can’t say for sure.

    Typical items of ordinance were:

    • Sidewinder AIM-9B
    • 1000lb GP bomb
    • Rhodesian made 1014lb ‘Golf’ bomb with 1m detonator rod.
    • 250lb GP bomb
    • Rhodesian manufactured 16 gallon ‘Frantan’ napalm canisters made of resin. (Possibly carried, I’m not quite sure).
    • S-African made 50 Gallon napalm canisters (Sometimes claimed to be an aluminum version of the Frantan).
    • 68mm Rocket pods (Matra).
    • 230 Gallon fuel tank
    • 100 Gallon fuel tank
    • A few 100 Gallon fuel tanks were also modified to double as reconnaissance pods.

    Unfortunately I have to few pictures of these Hunters in ‘combat mode’ to make a definitive list of load combinations. However, the 230 gallon tanks seem to have been always fitted in their usual place and all other ordinance was placed on the outer most two hard-points. When two Golf bombs were carried one was usually retarded. Sometimes only one Golf bomb was carried on one wing and a 1000lb GP bomb on the other. I have no photos of a RhodAF Hunter with both hard-points loaded. I do have a belly shot of two RhodAF Hunters in flight that shows both carrying 230 gallon tanks. However, one of them has AIM-9Bs on the middle pylon and nothing on the outer hard-point the other Hunter carries a 68mm pod on the outermost hard-point and has nothing on the middle hard-point. Both seem to have three pylons under each wing. The Recon pod was always carried under the port wing on the outer pylon and was balanced out by a regular 100 gallon tank on the starboard wing.

    in reply to: American "constant peg" MiGs #2517615
    qwerty
    Participant

    If the US was ordering Chinese-built kalashnikovs from the PRC from the 1970s on, why not add a few neat agressor planes

    AK-47s from China? Do you have any info on that? I find it amazing that the States ordered rifles etc from China considering the relationship.

    The CIA covertly bought AK-47s and other Soviet made gear from all sorts of sources during the cold war. I remember seeing a documentary where they claimed that this included some Warsaw Pact countries. They cited an example of several planeloads of RPG’s, mortars and AKs being bought from the CSSR and shipped more or less directly to Pakistan for distribution to the Afghans who used it used against the USSRs forces.

    There is no chance the Chinese would have sold the USA F-7s. The aircraft were probably acquired from Egypt or some other similar source as a way of assessing the state and quality of what was then the cutting edge of Chinese jet aircraft production technology rather than that they were intended for use as aggressors.

    in reply to: Swiss Hunters #2517628
    qwerty
    Participant

    Who else besides the Swiss gave their Hunters AIM-9’s?

    Hunter operators I have researched that wired it up for heat-seekers:

    1. Oman, These aircraft were wired up for the AIM-9P on inner wing pylons between drop tank and the fuselage. They may possibly also have used earlier AIM-9 variants.
    2. Rhodesia, Depending on who you believe they used either the AIM-9B or S-African ‘Voorslag’ 1 or 2 (aka, CSIR V1 and V2) which were AIM-9B clones. The S-African clones were apparently never made in any numbers so my money is on the AIM-9B. God only knows where they got them, via Oman? S-Africa?. The missiles were carried on the inner most of the two outer wing pylons close to the wing tip.
    3. Somalia, Actually not Sidewinders but close. Apparently at least one Somali Hunter was wired up for the Soviet K-13.

    Other Hunter+Sidewinder operators I have seen mentioned: Chile, the Netherlands, Sweden and Singapore. The Shafrir has also been mentioned in connection with the Hunter but I don’t know if that’s true.

    in reply to: The Hunters Are Back! (Lebanon) #2517958
    qwerty
    Participant

    Lebanon has other priorities than new jets. Still a lot of rebuilding to be done since last summer. New jets parked at Beirut IAP would just be wasted money the next time Israel flexes its muscles.

    I don’t disagree with that. It simply struck me that if Lebanon really needs bomb-trucks so badly there are easier ways of getting ahold of some than refurbishing dusty old Hawker Hunters. The ALCA in particular is readily available and it’s a better close support aircraft then an 50’s vintage FGA.70s refurbished during the 1970s and stored under god knows what conditions for many years. I doubt there is substance to these reports. Whether or not Israel flexes its muscles depends to a large extent on how serious the Lebanese government gets about dealing with the militias that are pissing off the Israelis. If Lebanon gets really serious about controlling these militants they might even get any aircraft they buy paid for from US military aid. Besides the Hunters as well as the Mirages Lebanon sold to Pakistan survived the civil war and (how many?) Israeli bombing campaigns and cross border operations didn’t they? I have always wondered how these aircraft managed to survive.

    in reply to: Swiss Hunters #2517975
    qwerty
    Participant

    Of course during the latter part of the Hunter’s career, I’m sure these rocket rails had long been gone with rocket pod being the replacement.

    Definitely, these rockets (or rail launched weapons of similar vintage) were used by the Rhodesian T.55 Vampires during cross border raids conducted in the late 1970s. By that time they were so far beyond their expiry date that they either didn’t ignite or had such reduced thrust that they endangered Rhodesian ground troops just as much as the enemy. The Rhodesian Hunters switched to rocket pods (mainly of French origin IIRC) because they had hard-points to spare. The only reason the Vamps kept the rocket rails even though they were capable of carrying pods was because they needed their two hard-points for drop tanks to achieve any worth while range.

    in reply to: Swiss Hunters #2518050
    qwerty
    Participant

    Were the various dumb bombs carried of the RAF types or U.S. Mk-80 series types

    Anyone?

    I’d like to know that myself. They certainly look rather archaic, perhaps British, French or maybe domestic designs? Interestingly enough these Swiss Hunters carried asymmetric loads, a maverick under one wing and a bomb under the other.

    http://www.swisshunters.info/images/4065-1.jpg

    There are also unconfirmed reports of PGM’s being carried with targeting being handled by ground troops. It doesn’t seem that far fetched, if an F-7PG can deliver PGMs so should a Hunter.

    in reply to: The Hunters Are Back! (Lebanon) #2518087
    qwerty
    Participant

    There are still no Hunters over the Lebanese skies.

    However, I finally found this URL in English of snippets from the local press (August 20).

    In As-Saffir daily here are two small paragraphs (2nd and last):

    Nahr al-Bared: The army is preparing to introduce Hawker Hunter [fighters] in the [military] settlement operation.

    The army is rumored to prepare for launching four Hawker Hunter fighters [into the battle].

    http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=10433

    The last I heard from a retired pilot was that they were still waiting for the ejection seat cartidges (?) to be delivered.

    I like the Hunter as much as the next man but it has become a museum piece by now. It’s hard to believe you can still get parts for it. If this is true it can’t be more than a temporary stopgap.

    Are there any rumors of new acquisitions? The Hawk/K-8/Aermacchi/L-159 ALCA could all handle this sort of work and the L-159 ALCA should be available at relatively short notice and for a very reasonable price.

Viewing 7 posts - 151 through 157 (of 157 total)