VnomadIf EU had waited longer and held election according to their own Agreed plans with Ukraine , There was no reason to have the crisis. Ukraine would have had a elected President likely Porshenko or who ever Ukraine people elect and Russia would have no reason to contest it.
In worst case Ukraine would have agreed to opt for EU Deal and gone its own way with all its plus and minuses and Russia its own.
How would any of this have led to a collapse in relations between Ukraine and Russia? Poroshenko would have come and gone like Yushchenko. If his approval rating was anything like it is now, he may even have had to resign before his term was up.
Ukraine is not a homogenous country , there is East that is more tuned to the Russia and West that is more tuned to West.
That was the case before. But with Crimea lost along with significant parts of the Donetsk & Luhansk, and pro-Russia sentiment having sunk in more moderate areas, the balance of power in Kiev has decisively shifted westwards accompanied by growing nationalism everywhere (especially with younger generation). They aren’t going to return to the old East-West power switching model of yesteryear.
But Chances are if he would have got reinstated , it would have shown EU as a fair player in the game and would have won hearts and minds of people in the East and Yushchenko credibility or what ever he had in East part of Ukraine would have further diminished
‘Yushchenko credibility’? How’s he still in the picture? You’re probably mixing him up with Yanukovych.
If the EU did mastermind the Maidan coup, they’re not going to be distracted by naive fleeting notions of ‘hearts and minds’, ‘fair-play’ etc. And going by the results of the 2014 parliamentary elections (even in the East), they have no cause to worry about their long-term prospects in Ukraine, which is now firmly in their orbit… and out of Russia’s.
VnomadEveryone realizes that counter stealth technologies and tactics can reduce the effectiveness of stealth, but not to the point where stealth is useless.
Far from being on the path to ‘useless’, stealth is becoming more and more essential, for the simple reason that what is a challenging mission for a stealth aircraft is likely to be a total non-starter for a non-LO aircraft.
The SDBII seems to have a longer range that that SDBI, maybe because it is lighter I am not sure. I thought you were refering to the SDBI in your previous post because you were talking about block 3F. Also of course the enemy might jam your GPS weapons.
I was referring to the SDB I and it is longer ranged than the SDB II. Yes, where GPS is an issue they’ll need to employ the JSOW instead.
The JSOW will be used with what?
As for the variant of the JSOW with submunitions ( JSOW-A ), what about the treaty on submunitions? It is my understanding that the US is trying to get rid of all submunition weapons. The JSOW also uses GPS, which can be jammed, and the F-35 cannot get accurate GPS coordinates at that kind of range. The JSOW C uses a penetration warhead.
They can use any variant of the JSOW or a combination of multiple variants. And no, the US has absolutely no intention of signing up to any ban on cluster weapons. (It is however investing in programs to reduce the incidences of unexploded munitions.)
Even if you use it, it is likely to be shot down. You’d have to use several missiles for a strike to have a high PK.
Of course they’d use several missiles. I said as much in my previous post.
Some of them are mobile. They can fold their antenna and move within 5 minutes. You can’t rely on satellite data to attack them.
They’d probably launch a barrage of CMs against such targets with different flight paths spanning all likely egress routes, equipped with seekers capable of identifying and targeting dormant radars/launchers. And yes the strike would need to be coordinated with SEAD/DEAD operations to neutralize supporting QR-SAMs & AAA. Its not a one dimensional equation.
VnomadThe inverse is also true , had Euro/US had shown some patience and just waited for few more months the Viktor Yanukovych would have been kicked out from power and Porshenko would have any way become the President in a free and fair Presidential election . He was just few months away from being kicked out by his own people when EU and Ukraine agreed for election in November.
Assuming the West did orchestrate the Maidan revolution/coup, how would having patience and waiting a bit longer instead have helped precipitate the collapse of Ukraine-Russia relations? Poroshenko’s election (whether free, fair or dubious) wouldn’t have achieved that anymore than Yushchenko’s did.
The same people are more than happy to reinstate a deposed President in Yemen who had to flee but is not willing to do the same in Ukraine when he had to flee his country . Had EU done that that would have made their own good will among the Ukraine people go much higher and perhaps even in the East where Yanukovych had his base
I don’t think goodwill in Ukraine is an issue of concern for the EU. Nor will it be as long as Ukrainians feel threatened/victimized by Russia (a sentiment that is unlikely to fade fast).
VnomadI am not against stealth, for sure it increases survivability, but against a very modern IADS it might not be enough. Even during GW1 the F-117s were sometimes helped by EF-111s.
It may or may not be enough, but stealth will increasingly become essential in such roles. That is what the Russians and Chinese (and others) have realized.
110 km sounds a bit exagerated for the SDB1, except if it is launched from an F-22. Usually the range given is more like 70 km. The JSOW has more range but can be easily shot down. You can bet the enemy defenses would try to protect their anti stealth radars with short range SAMs. Also the F-22/F-35 cannot get sufficiently precise coordinates for a GPS weapon at that kind of range.
Sounds exaggerated based on? 70 km+ is the range quoted for the SDB II (and the JDAM-ER). With regard to the JSOW, any missile can be shot down. Why is why they won’t be used in isolation. Also, FYI the JSOW A & B are area-effect weapons (that don’t require precise coordinates) while the JSOW-C is equipped with an IIR seeker.
Even at that the SDB2 doesn’t have anywhere near enough range for long range surveillance radars.
Long range surveillance radars typically aren’t very mobile. You’d ideally employ cruise missiles from long ranges to take them out.
VnomadVnomad, can you please explain me why your side is always so extreme in its own conclusions?
I don’t have a side, I can only speak for myself. And I don’t think I’ve said anything extreme. :confused:
I think the reliance of militaries on LO platforms will continue to grow in the years to come, accompanied at the same time with an increasing ability to counter LO types (an ability magnified against non-LO types). Nothing unusual about it from a historical perspective. Life goes on.
VnomadYeah, that’s why we lost Ukraine now…for the next foreseeable decades, at least. Coz being unable to outplay the West with political means – we went full retard towards Ukraine and Ukrainians, their territorial integrity and sovereignty. What a ‘smart’ move! Now even those people who didn’t support Maidan don’t like us even more than Maidan. In 2004, when 1st Maidan happened – we were acting much smarter(or just carefully?) than this. Now we have lost it completely – for decades if not centuries.
An astute analysis. Had Russia done nothing in the wake of the Euromaidan events, just sat back and shrugged, the ‘revolution’ would have simply crumbled under the weight of its own internal contradictions. Worst case scenario, Russia would have had to tolerate a couple of years of Poroshenko. Not a big deal.. after all five years of Yushchenko didn’t really change the status quo.
And now.. Russia’s de facto control of Crimea changed into de jure control and some parts of Donetsk & Luhansk oblasts might become autonomous territories. But Ukraine has been lost to the West forever (irrespective of whether its admitted into the NATO or EU). Russo-Ukrainian relations will take decades to heal. A fact that would be unchanged even if Poroshenko were to lose power tomorrow.
Was it worth it? I don’t think so, though opinions vary. If, as many allege, all this was the result of an insidious Western plot to rupture relations between Ukraine & Russia, well.. it worked. Mostly because Putin played along.
VnomadWell it seems to me it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the Russians and Chinese will do everything they can to detect stealth planes.
The fact that the Russians and Chinese are both heavily investing in LO fighter types is also instructive.
The F-35 is hardly in service and won’t have significant capabilities before 2018 at best ( even at that it won’t have long range weapons before many years later ) , and will remain in service for 50 years.
2018 is less than 20 months away. As for long range weapons, the F-35 will have both the SDB I (110 km) and JSOW (130km) available with the Blk 3F. JSOW-ER (500 km+) too is available as an option.
VnomadBeing the wrong one going to a foreign country with hostile intentions (spying) and then claiming you are the victim… either they learned alot by jews or the US is no more recognizable from them.
Just what the thread needed.. more antisemitism. :rolleyes:
VnomadOK, what would you suggest as a solution?
China and its neighbours confer together and come to an agreement; China’s sovereignty over the islands/shoals acknowledged in return for an agreement on such islands having no recognized EEZ, for all states (as per UNCLOS norms).
Given the price of oil and its (relatively bleak) long term prospects its not like offshore oil is an important consideration over the short term. There’s fisheries but an economy as large and diverse as China’s can afford to forgo that I think. Would certainly go a long way in pre-empting the emergence of a multinational alliance designed to ‘contain’ China.
VnomadU.S. interests would be far better served by a bold attempt to eliminate the causes of conflict than by continuing the futile pursuit of mechanisms for managing tensions. Having taken sides against China, the United States cannot now hope to mediate between the parties. But it can make it clear that it would welcome, accept, and support the negotiated settlement of their differences.
Equally one could ask why it would require US mediation for China to successfully resolve its disputes with its neighbours?
Fact is, while US presence in East & S.E Asia may be a source of irritation for China, it is welcomed by almost every other state in the region (as well as some interested extra-regional ones like Australia & India).
VnomadThat should be $15 billion for all 30 aircraft put together. $500 mil each.
VnomadWhat “my opinion”? Which requirements originally placed in the RFP for AH-64E have not been met by the Mi-28NE?
I don’t know. I haven’t seen the Mi-28’s RFP. Only the one for the AH-64.
Nothing complicated there.. Boeing went too confident depending on political support and tried to rip Iraqis off even more than usual. Simple as that.. LockMart did the same with the F-16s.
Not impossible (for a different reason) – as I recall the US was reluctant to sell the AH-64s (offering the AH-1Z instead). In either case, it is again an apt example of why Iraq’s conditions cannot to carried forward to other operators (like India).
Huh? You can’t? And how about the Indonesian deal for eight Apaches totalling $1.42 bil? Is Indonesia, too, stuck in the midst of a civil war?
Just FYI the DSCA quotes the upper limit of the potential value (for Congressional approval). The actual contract figure may be vastly lower. (And yes this applies to Iraq too.)
Case-in-point: 10 C-17s for the IAF –
DSCA: “The estimated cost is $5.8 billion.”
Actual contract: “India Approves $4.1 Billion Boeing Order”
The Indonesian release is dated Sept. 21, 2012. The actual contract was signed in August 2013 –
USA and Indonesia formalise AH-64E Apache deal – Flight Global
The USA will sell Indonesia eight Boeing AH-64E Apache Longbow helicopters in a deal worth $500 million.
The deal was announced at a joint press conference in Jakarta between US defence secretary Chuck Hagel and Indonesian defence minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro, according to a US Department of Defense statement.
U.S. to sell Indonesia Apache attack helicopters in $500 million deal – Reuters
The United States will sell the Indonesian army eight Apache attack helicopters in a deal worth $500 million including radar, training and maintenance, a U.S. defense official said on Monday.
“We are working on further details of the delivery and training time line now,” the official said on condition of anonymity.
US to sell helicopters to Indonesia in $500m deal – BBC
The US has agreed for the first time to sell new AH-64E Apache attack helicopters to Indonesia, US officials say.
The deal is worth $500m (£320m), including radar, training and maintenance.
Indonesia will purchase eight new Apache helicopters, made by Boeing.
VnomadNope. That’s not how it exactly went and certainly not how I have described it. Iraq has issued RFP to Boeing for Apaches + Longbows + Romeo Hellfires.. Boeing have responded with an offer totalling $4.2bil. Few months later Iraq has closed a package deal with Rosobronoeksport (?) for Pantsir-S1 and Mi-28NEs with Arbalet radars (+ additional Mi-35Ms??) and then simply let the Apache offer expire without response even following US pressure.. that clearly indicates that their original requirements have already been met.. The issue is fairly well known and your constant twisting and putting words into my mouth does not change much on that..
‘Clearly indicates’. Your opinion. You’re welcome to it. Of course it doesn’t explain why the costs quoted to Iraq are so wildly out of line with what all its customers were quoted and assumes US & Russian after-sales support rises by the same proportion in a warzone.
Can’t drag that comparison to other countries not stuck in the midst of a civil war, whose the militaries don’t require extensive hand-holding by the OEM. And yes that would come under the heading of ‘my opinion’.
The modernization effort will never stop.. But IN, just like other armed forces are being fed from a finite pod. Replacing Sea Kings on 3:1 ratio is simply beyond the wildest imaginations, China or not.
You know that figure refers to inductions over the course of the next 20 years or so, right? You must not be following the Indian Navy’s modernization plan very closely if you think a three fold increase in helicopters is a product of a wild imagination. The increase in the fleet’s gross tonnage would be a good place to start.
I haven’t.. As already said, I am cautiously filtering whatever you’re claiming..
So I might have had a role to play in the IN releasing an RFI (and preparing an RFP) for 123 aircraft NMRH contract…
VnomadUnfreaking believeable!
Vnomad, you are a freaking Lockheed Martin bot, along with a whole lot of others (I hope some of them eventually get proper jobs!)….we know who you lot are!
Nothing wrong with taking LM’s schilling but please don’t think people don’t know who the bots are! Just be honest!
You got me. I was head-hunted by Lockheed Martin for my qualifications in pushing propaganda and tasked with improving the image of the dastardly F-35 on the Keypublishing forum.
And I’d have gotten away with too if weren’t for you meddling kids!
A lot of us read, but we don’t always post because no time at work but lately you are getting beyond yourself!
You’ve posted a whole lot of drivel for ages but no one has the time to refute the crap line by line!
Just out of curiosity, who’s ‘we’? Who’re you speaking on behalf of (aside from MSphere)?
You twist your posts to show how great the F-35 is… give it a rest you are so obvious! All the problems and niggles of the F-35 will be worked out in due time (they will with the amount of money thrown at it). And the F-35 will do certain jobs but it ain’t great and iterations of counters to it are much cheaper and it’s certainly not worth the money that has been spent….sadly the money’s being spent and the US can’t do a thing about it (LM don’t worry McCain has to blow hot air from time to time to show he’s chairman of the Senate committee….won’t change a thing…pork barrel spending will continue because politicians just want to get re-elected).
Seeing as I’ve been outed I have no option but to give it a rest. 🙁
For example, you posted best characteristics for CAS aircraft (look up your posting history)….would suit cheap planes like Scorpion etc., long loiter time, cheap operating costs etc. etc. but at the same time can’t admit using a $100m F-35 with expensive operating costs, short legs etc. is overkill.
Replacing so many types F-16, F-15, A-10 etc. means compromises and the costs are not justified.
Could go a lot a cheaper than the Scorpion. Super Tucano + Reaper + AC-130. Ideal… for permissive environments.
Another example: you keep peddling the F-35 to India (including on other forums)….wake me up when America has a strategic relationship like India has with Russia, and starts delivering Virginia class nuclear attack submarines to India! Russia supplied the technology for miniaturised nuclear sub reactors, supplied nuclear attack Akula II subs, plus other goodies like Brahmos (forget the notional 290km MCTR limit!). That’s not to say the US won’t have a strategic alliance in the future (if only to counter China); or F-35B won’t be bought (only because no other VTOL replacement for the harrier).
So, permitting the purchase of high-end weaponry from the US should only possible if the US were a strategic partner of India, which could only be proven if it were willing to sell high-end weaponry to India. And the fact that there isn’t a strategic alliance with the US, doesn’t mean one wouldn’t exist in the future.
Okay.
With the Rafale, India gets to maintain its freedom of movement with no strings, including nuclear strike (giving a wide array of nuclear responses, not just inflexible nuclear ballistic missiles), with the added bonus of Rafale M available if required to supplement air wings on the new carriers. The Rafale is more than good enough to deal with most local threats for the foreseeable future. Later on, PAK-FA and indigenous 5th and 6th generations will only enhance India’s potent defence force.
Debatable. Pakistan probably yes. China… very very different situation.
Anyway, no offense Vnomad, the good news is there are plenty of seasoned and knowledgeable posters like Scorpion82 and MSphere that are easily able to refute your Lockheed Martin PR puffs! meanwhile, back to work for me!
Haha. :highly_amused: Good one.
PS I’ll go easy on my exclamation marks if you go easy on your italics! Thanks ;- )
Sorry. No can do. I love my italics. Very close to my heart. 😀 But don’t worry I’m okay with the exclamation points.
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