7 different fighter types (SU-30, M2K, MIG-29, LCA, FGA/T-50, Rafale, Jaguar)

3 different AWACS (IL-76, A330, Embraer)

2 different tankers (IL-76 and A330)

6 Different light/medium/Heavy transports (AN-32 upgrade, CN-295, C-130, D0228, IL-76, C-17

– The MiG-29s & Jaguars will start retiring around 2025 with the pilots likely converting to the PAK FA. As for the Rafale, until the ink dries on a signed contract…

– A330 based AWACS is at least a decade away. Will eventually replace the Phalcons.

– While currently an Avro-replacement, the C-295s is an An-32 replacement as well.

– Same for the C-17 vis a vis the Il-76.

– Do-228 has no overlap with anything else. Employed for surveillance, communications and training only.

LOL. Resorting to export records is not a wise move, if you ask me. Each time the Typhoon was pitted against the Rafale on export, the latter was ranked higher. Are you running out of arguments ?

Well seeing as the Rafale recent export successes in Egypt & Qatar are being trotted as a reason for ‘jealousy’, perhaps you should take your own advice.

BTW, I don’t care what the F-35 do/will do, and 36 is on the right way to reach 126. Stay tune :p

Given how much of the market the F-35 has taken away from the Rafale, your ‘not caring’ comes across as a litte forced. As for India, even the order for the 36 units is still only in early negotiations. Unless the PAK FA development runs into a wall, an order for 126 units is a pipe dream at this point.

BTW have we been able to get a source for the assertion about Libyan and Syrian MiG-21s doing CAS under the noses of NATO AWACS? Seeing as the JSTARS can track ground targets at a range 250km, I don’t see any reasonable explanation as to why a Wedgetail or Phalcon won’t be able to track a loaded aircraft doing Mach 0.7 at 150 ft AGL, at even longer ranges.

What’s wrong with that? In mid-80s, 51 Mirage 2000s were acquired to serve as a spearhead of IAF, at times when fighter fleets were much larger than today. Do you think this acquisition was a mistake?

The Mirage buy was knee-jerk response to the PAF’s acquisition of the F-16, rather than a well considered strategic purchase. For a spearhead (operating in contested airspace/behind-enemy-lines) their best bet for the same budget remains the F-35 (which is actually what I was referring to).

With the whole ToT & local production angle, there was still that aspect going for the Rafale (some would call the value of ToT.. dubious but anyway). With the playing field leveled by the decision to buy off-the-shelf, the only constraints remaining are 1. bureaucratic inertia in the IAF & MoD, and 2. the GoI’s wish to sign a consolation agreement to keep bilateral relations on an even keel and avoid the impression of a snub (myopic view but its there nonetheless).

On the topic low level penetration, let me post a question here – how do you defend against cruise missiles? And the answer will be illustrative.

The Rafale topped several technical evaluations and was chosen by India which is facing China. This is a clear indication of rafale’s performance. Clearly ahead of the competition.

Clearly ahead of the MiG-35, F-16E, Gripen E and Super Hornet. The Indian evaluation only validated what everyone one already knew. The EF was judged to be a peer while the F-35 wasn’t evaluated at all.

Wonder why the IAF was so keen to purchase the Rafale ? Wonder why Indian gov still opted for the Rafale when it could have cancelled everything and go for additional Su30… Because they know it’s the superior bird and fully relevant against China’s new threats.

Appeal to authority, huh? Of course the reality is that the Rafale for all its strengths (and there are many of those), is simply too expensive to be ordered in numbers. And that is the simple reason why the Indian MoD & IAF for their wisdom have been reduced to ordering just 36 units without any ToT or local production, down from their original plan of 200 (126+74). BTW the Chinese don’t have that limitation since their J-10s & J-11s while perhaps not quite as sophisticated, can built in more than enough numbers to compensate.

Swiss Air Force had it right : it is superior in every area it was tested. And the gap has increased since tested.

Gap with what? Not the F-35 for sure. The gap with the Eurofighter on the other is most definitely narrowing as the latter sets up for the Captor-E, Storm Shadow/Taurus, Brimstone, Meteor and the Striker II. As for the Gripen E, there’s just simply no way the Swiss could have tested a truly representative product, given that their trials ran a decade before the aircraft’s scheduled IOC. The ‘official’ weight of aircraft has changed a full ton since then, to say nothing of the avionics and mission systems.

Yes India is at present time ordering AL-31FP from Russia. Doesn’t speak of selfsustainment..

Sukhoi facility on full throttle

The Sukhoi (Su-30 MKI) engine facility is a marvel by itself with some of the gen-next technologies already being used, including a robotic welding system. Speaking to OneIndia, Rajaram Mohanty, Officiating General Manager (Sukhoi Engine Divison), said that a total of 23 engines have been made from the raw material phase now. “The division has so far manufactured close to 280 engines (AL-31FP) for the Sukhois, while around 158 have been overhauled. The first engine from the raw material phase was rolled out during 2011-12. We are also fully equipped for the long testing (three months) of Sukhoi engines,” says Rajaram. The TBO (Time Between Overhaul) of a Sukhoi engine is 1000 hours, while the total lifespan of an engine is 2000 hours. HAL hopes that it will be able to generate more employment when the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project takes a firm shape.

Link

OK, but there is still the question: if not Rafale, then what else?

To make up the numbers – MKI + Tejas. But for a limited order of 36-54 aircraft to serve as a spearhead, umm.. guess. 😀

(The PAK FA is an option but the definitive version that the IAF is interested in, will only be available by around 2022 IIRC.)

If I am not wrong, the MKI is a licensed production and India cannot simply increase numbers to whatever figures without Russian consent, even if those airframes would be entirely HAL-built.

Well the prevailing concern has been to ensure that the aircraft remain serviceable in the event of a disruption in the supply chain (like the 1991 USSR collapse, or the current crisis in the Ukraine). Getting Russian consent shouldn’t be problem, for the near future at least. And in the very unlikely situation that relations breakdown to the point where they refuse a new contract, HAL could go ahead and build them anyway (like China).