Plane cost. Spares. Simulators. Training. Maintenance. Lets wait to have included items to check at isoperimeter.

I wasn’t being sarcastic if that’s what you thought. An acquisition cost of $170M is somewhat on the higher side but still broadly on expected lines, unlike the Gripen E for example, which at all inclusive unit cost of $130-150M was pricier than (at least I) expected. The Rafale’s unlikely to be a lot cheaper on acquisition than the F-35A (also around $150-160M, albeit including offsets) but I think most folks have already accepted that. In any case, that’s a discussion for another time.

Congrats again to Dassault.

Congratulations. I wouldn’t have thought Egypt could swing the $6.5bn+ needed in the prevailing global economy but clearly I was wrong.

Any chance we could get a price estimate on the Rafale from the deal?

@ mrmalaya

yes, we agree on that, it was MoD’s choice not to have any other option

@ Siddar

that’s just LM’s propaganda to force nations into buying their thing.

Propaganda might work on politicians but pressure from their respective air forces is probably more effective. In this case, the MoD clearly wanted a stealthy complement to the Eurofighter.

Rafales are being updated and France is nowhere near investing billions into a new aircraft, so obviously, nothing would force you to spend tens of billions to keep your industry working. besidew, they are developing next gen of UAV, and it’s not the F-35 that brought them that… they do it with the French. The F-35 brought only the possibility to bid for a few contracts, nothing else

The Rafale would have been simpler but from an industrial perspective totally non-viable. Their participation in the F-35 program will possibly net the UK industry over $40 billion over the next 20 years. Dassault/Thales won’t have been able to offer anything even remotely comparable.

And even if the UK had decided (back in the 90s) not to participate in the F-35 program, and splurge on an EMCAT solution, they’d still have been better off investing in a naval variant of the Eurofighter (navalized airframe, LERX, TVC etc). The capital would have been invested domestically, the RN/RAF fleets would have had logistical commonality and it would have helped the EF’s export prospects.

Can you name ANY military program in the world that has been run as transparently as the F-35 program?

Can you name any military program in the world that has the F-35’s marketing budget?

You tell me. PR isn’t a particularly expensive activity and Saab, Dassault and EF have spent a fair bit on marketing their wares.

And speaking of “transparent”:

Gates said he’s particularly excited that the F-35 appears to be on schedule to equip the first training squadron at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla. , by 2011, and enable the Marine Corps to reach initial operational capability by 2012.

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=55684

So transparent that the SecDef didn’t know there was a three-year delay.

Forget the rhetoric. Can you actually point me in the direction of the program that offers more detail than what is available for the F-35? Even by (relatively transparent) US standards, the F-35 is an exceptionally open program. In contrast, for most other programs we’re have to rely on folks with a ‘inside track’ on what’s going on (not that I’m not appreciative of people like Scorpion82, Halloweene and Kovy).

No. Notwithstanding the relatively strong EGP vs US$, I can assure you the raising of new debt in the international financial markets will not entail yields of 10%.

Not in dollar denominated debt yes, but otherwise Egypt govt bond yield hovers around 15%. Interest rates are low in the west but with plenty of investment opportunities in developing world (Indonesia, India, Brazil, Turkey and so on), Egypt’s borrowing rates are still a function of its economic stability.

Unfortunately, LM and the DoD have had a long track record of massaging numbers, releasing half-truths and papering over cracks right, left and centre. This is not something in the distant past, but is happening right now.

Why would anyone* trust them given their actions over the course of the program?

*Apart from the stupidly naive.

I, and I am sure, many others, would love to just be able to take a press release at face value. But, given doing so would make you look like an idiot, there is little alternative but to read between the lines, then look elsewhere for confirmation of what they have left unsaid.

Can you name ANY military program in the world that has been run as transparently as the F-35 program? Forget Russia and China. Even in Europe. Can you for example tell me the exact status of the Gripen E? What are the benchmarks required, what part of the testing is done, what part remains? How far is it ahead or behind schedule (in months please)? What’s the exact status of the Rafale F3R? What is the exact cost breakdown – R&D, upgrades, flyaway cost and support?

If LM & Co. are offering half-truths and massaging figures, its competitors in Europe & elsewhere are operating in complete blackout by comparison. Right now.

Also, it’s highly likely the Egyptian government will take advantage of the low cost of debt in the international capital markets, particularly in the US dollar bond market.

Even for long-term debt with Egypt’s appalling credit rating (Caa1 stable), I’d expects yields of <5%.

US dollar bond market? You mean Egyptian bond sales denominated in dollars?

Yield on Egyptian debt varies from 12% to 15%. For EGP dominated bonds that hovers around 10%.

Anyway, with 1€ = 1.13$, it is certainly the good time to buy some Rafale if you are interested in this jet.

Only if your forex reserves have a high proportion of US dollars (as opposed to Euros). Keep in mind the dollar has appreciated against most currencies, not just the Euro.

The Egyptian Pound/Euro exchange rate at least has not significantly changed.