Phil Fosterthanks for the bit about Rafale’s antenna (had no idea). My point however, was that the Typhoon Syndicate has a tendency to hype their products.
………………and nobody else does? Nobody else ‘bungs’ backhanders? Certainly not US companies like LM?
Its called advertising/touting for business.
Phil FosterSome of the claims that have been BAe might only be based RCS looking at the EFA from the front.
As for the rest of it will find out soon enough. I still think if the RAF had creamed the Su-30’s we would hear of it soon enough.
Knowing a few RAF guys and their ilk i really cant believe they could keep stum about defeating a airshow stopper like the Sukhoi.
theirs something more at stake here than just pride. Considering the fact that BAe has been touting the Eurofighter as the next best thing to the F-22 to us taxpayers It is going to be questioned even more about how it spends its money (read reports on back handers to sauds etc) if it looses out to the Su-30.
The Sauds wouldnt be so happy, nor the Austrians and many other EFA partners
I disagree. I too have met many RAF types and have often asked the question of how they fare tactically against their US collegues. They are always reticent and all you get from them is that they do well enough ‘thanks very much for asking’. You never know one way or the other because they do not tell you. I have also met many USAF types and asked similar questions and they are just as reticent. Its almost like there is some agreement not to ‘kiss and tell’. They are, as has been mentioned, consumate professionals, any backslapping and jibing is kept ‘in house’.
Phil FosterPIRATE is massively superior to OLS-30. However, did the Typhoons actually have PIRATE fitted?
Regarding BVR the CAPTOR has various LPI features… Also RCS of belly mounted AIM-120 is going to be less than R-77 / R-27 on the Su-30MKI.
No they did not, PIRATE is being introduced in Block 5 and only the 17(R) Typhoons have them as yet. The Typhoons in this latest excercise were Block 2As and were not fitted with PIRATE.
Phil FosterWhile the RAF fielded some of their most-experienced and highly-qualified pilots, some of them being very senior performance evaluators in active service, the IAF pilots were a mix of ‘young to middle-level pilots’ from the ‘Rhinos’ squadron.
Somebody is bragging okay.
One thing to note about this comment is how new the Typhoon is to the RAF. It is primarily experienced pilots flying it because it is a new type. Ab initio crews haven’t started training on it just yet. The pilots who flew were the pilots who were available.
Like I said, somebody is making an attempt to brag and failing.
Also note that the Typhoon is only just at IOC WRT the technology it is utilising. The Su30 is a mature design with years of operational testing and development behind it going all the way back to the Su27.
Perspective fellers. Perspective. Try to put your national colours away when posting.
Phil FosterMost of the English are Celts too they just don’t know it. This stuff goes on in England too, particularly the south coast, they hate it as much as anybody else.
I part own a static caravan in Wales does that make me hated too or is it just because I’m from Birmingham?
The wife is Welsh though so maybe I’m partially redeemed.
Phil FosterMost of the English are Celts too they just don’t know it. This stuff goes on in England too, particularly the south coast, they hate it as much as anybody else.
I part own a static caravan in Wales does that make me hated too or is it just because I’m from Birmingham?
The wife is Welsh though so maybe I’m partially redeemed.
Phil FosterIt’s a BAw product due to BAe acquiring the company that originally designed and built the M2/3; BAe didn’t develop it on their own.
I do not think that is the point that is being made. Strictly speaking the F16 is not a Lockheed Martin design it is General Dynamics but GD is now part of LM. In this way it seems that FMC/United Defence (Defense?)) is now part of BAe.
Also note that the British MoD didn’t rush out and replace the Warrior MICV with Bradleys.
Phil FosterI assume the old 30mm pods are still around, the Sea Harrier used them too after all. The US ones would have to be purchased first.
The problem was as I understand it at least, that the MoD cut off the cash before the guns had been fully integrated saying (because afterall they are the experts and know what they are talking about) that ‘a cannon was no longer needed on the aircraft’. Sounds familiar doesn’t it? Thats the British government for you. The one on the AV8B (GAU12 is it? here pictured: http://nl.airliners.net/photos/middle/3/6/1/1206163.jpg) was, as is their custom in the USA, fully funded, fully fielded and fully utilised. My thoughts are that they would fit right in and be working with the minimum of fuss but the British MoD doesn’t think that the requirements of British troops in the line of fire are worth looking after in deference to a British MPs wages or pention so I doubt it will ever happen. 😡 😡
Phil FosterWe will be looking at ten in total at best. 7 SSN’s and 3 SSBN’s. If the Navy is very very lucky they might be able to squeeze another SSN but I dont hold out much hope.:mad:
Agreed. Certainly not with Labour running the show.
Phil FosterSteady on old chap, he’s entitled to an opinion.
Agreed. He stated his and I stated mine. 🙂
About the Harriers and guns: Just bring back the old Harrier I gun packs.
Or better still, use the same gun pack that the US Marines use.
Phil FosterDon’t see the EF2000 as terribly useful for the British military.
That is because you are an arrogant American Supremacist who knows less than half what he thinks he knows. Just give up will you?
Phil Fosteri know its off topic, but immigration doesn’t account for much of the social security money, as most migrants are single people who aren’t allowed to claim unless they have been here and paid tax for several years, and are low priority for social housing. Without the cheap labour that migrants bring, we would be in a worse state.
Off topic alert!
In relation to the overall budget I agree but 1) The current imigration policy is not working and 2) The Social Security budget, for whatever reason really is a black hole. I’m sure we can find common ground here.
On topic alert!
Phil FosterWith 4% GDP, you could probably afford:
3.5 is more realistic, 3% is more likely.
4 CVF (with two acting as commando carriers when needed)
16 Type 45
16 Type 23 (to be replaced by a general purpose Type 45 derivative)
4 Albion class LPD
8 Bay class LSD
12 Astute class SSN
150 F-35C for use on the carriers
I’d say 3 is realistic, and so too is 14 T45s and a similar number of T45 multi purpose vessels, 3 Albion class, 4 Bay class and yes I’d go with 12 Astutes. I’d also say that a realaistic F35C order (and yes I am with you on the ‘C’ model as I really don’t think that the ‘B’ is working proposition) would be 200+ with around 180 for everyday operations split between the RAF and the FAA is also realistic.
RAF:
150 F-35C
150 Typhoon
300 Taranis-type UCAV (but carrier capable)plus huge numbers of Warrior and Reaper UAVs, built in the UK. For the tanker and transport force, I would buy some A-330 MRTTs outright, but buy a lot of A-400Ms to use as dual role tanker transport. A total fleet of 16 A-330s and 64 A-400Ms would make a lot of sense.
F35C? See above comment.
150 Typhoon, agreed.
UCAV types, again agreed. Same goes for the UAVs but I’d add 5 or 6 Global Hawks as well. A fully paid up tanker force is essential and all this lease talk BS is criminal thinking in my opinion. I’d like to see a bigger C17 fleet, 12 perhaps plus………..yes…………60+ A400Ms if they were sharing the tanker role. The C130Js would be nice to have but in the name of streamlining the fleet operations budget I reckon they’d need to be sold on.
Increase size up to around 125,000, formed into battlegroups and brigades.
Scrap the FRES project, and instead actually buy equipment, starting with CV90s or similar to replace Warrior, and wheeled APCs to replace most of the wheeled types. Improve the personal equipment levels, perhaps even switch to the HK 416 or Diemaco C8, or the G-36. Bin the whole Bowman project, and instead just buy one of the existing systems off the shelf.
Yup I think that 125,000 is realistic if not essential. Don’t discount the importance of MBTs either, I’d like to see Challenger 2s in service with increased size regiments utilising 4 vehicle Troop arrangements within each squadron.
I think that the emphasis on buying equipment bespoke is the retention of (heres that phrase again) operational soveriegnty. The worry being that if you buy it from somebody else it is easier to subvent and even sabotage. Bowman is a pain in the **** or so I’ve read but these systems tend to mature. The problem being the MoD rushing stuff into service before it is ready (and of course rushing things out of service before there is a replacement ready to go).
Instead of improving equipment levels I have a strange way of thinking. In my day it was bad form to use what you were issued. Apart from it being made by the lowest bidder the design was never very good, it was uncomfortable and fiddly. It was a sign of experience and professionalism if you (within certain operational perameters) ‘redesigned’ your own kit. It was not uncommon for a soldier to go into the field and the only issue kit he would be wearing would be the yolk, ammunition pouches,, ammunition (and magazines) plus whatever weapon he was issued with and the helmet. I’m not joking. At a glance they look the same because you can’t wear alternative DPM or helmets but the combats were generally bought from elswhere such as the Army and Navy store. Some would plug for arctic smocks whilst others might go for ‘Para’ smocks. This went all the way down to undergarments and even gloves, I think they issue proper Norwegian thermal shirts now but in my day you bought them yourself.
Anyway, my point is that to garner a sense of professionalism I think that apart from increased wages, operation bonuses and improved accomodation, food and benefits. British soldiers should also be given a modest kit allowance to taylor their own gear within the boundaries of SOPs and common sense. Sounds small but it can make a big difference in the same way that the regimental system does. Not only that but you have less chance of being charged for lost and damaged kit if you never actually use it. Oh yes and Tampons make great field dressings for your first aid kit.
Phil FosterIn answer to the observation that many of these changes would require extra tax, i would like to point out that there is no point in having any military systems unless you have significant numbers and quality to actually mount operations with them. This is especially relevant to the UK, which for the foreseeable future will be undertaking warfare mainly through expeditionary forces, like we see in Iraq and Afghanistan.
How would i pay for this? I would work on eliminating the waste and inefficiency that the British government (of any administration) has failed to in the past 25 years. With an NHS crowded with managers, lawyers having to be hired in droves because the PC brigade may bring lawsuits for virtually anything and limiting the expense accounts of the frankly overpaid fat cats that populate the House of Commons. (Tirade officially over 😀 )
Please don’t forget a workable imigration policy. Social security is the biggest department with a budget surpassing defence, education, law and order put together. Even the NHS can’t touch the social security budget, it is a monster.
Phil FosterRobL. Generally I like your thinking with a few slight changes to some of the figures perhaps.
– upgrade 135 Tornado GR4s with AESA, ASRAAM, etc…
My thoughts are a complete conversion of the F3 airframes. As I understand it they are low lifers compared to the GR4 airframes. I wonder how much would be interchangeable such as the FLIR/LRMTS kit, EJ200 would be useful too and as you say AESA which AFAIK is planned for the GR4 force anyway.
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