I doubt they will divide the forces up by population and even less likely by financial contribution. The latter is incrdibly difficult to calculate, since you would have to weigh the relative contributions from each country for the years each item was paid for, then of course if your going to include oil/gas money, then of course all subsidies (direct and indirect) ever given to Scotland would have to be deducted too!
Simply put, the Scotish will be given enough forces to maintain the basics of their defence policy, so some rescue aircraft at minimum but the rest is debatable. If they want fast jets, they likely to only get around 2 squadrons, and I cant see the RAF letting them cherry pick the best aircraft, rather a mix of what there is but with the fewest different types possible. From the Scottish side, the government will have little interest in maintaining a real air force when they are trying to cover the vast black hole left from not having English financial support, rather they will try and wriggle some arrangement where England provides air defence for Scotland using England’s defence budget. Ultimately the “kit” isn’t where the Scotish government will feel it, base closures are, even if the personnel are relocated to England!
Regarding naval forces, they will likely want to find some work for their shipbuilding industry in the short term, so more likely than requesting a share of the existing naval forces they are likely to angle for a English funded class of OPV’s (built in Scotland) which will be used for fisheries patrol ect. If they go for a share, probably 2 frigates plus a few MCMV’s and OPV’s. Regarding the SSBN’s, they will all be relocated to Devonport, since they are useless without the warheads and SSN facilities all of which are in England!
I’m afraid this post shows a lack of information you have and perhaps in England as a whole, about what an independant Scotland would be like.
The print material (again no links I’m afraid) I’ve read suggests that percentage entitlement is already written in law regarding the dissolution of the Act of Union.
There would then be as I stated above negotiation as to actual numbers and types and as Fedaykin pointed out reparations…or to put it another way the remnants of the UK (not just England) buying back Scotland’s share.
The RAF wouldn’t have much choice as to what was “cherry picked” as you phrased it.
Again it’s acknowledged that Scottish oil and Gas revenues are indeed Scottish. There is agreements in place over much of the North Sea oil and Gas fields, though the final “line in the water” has still to be agreed as to where Scottish Waters end and those of the remnants of the UK would begin.
I’m sure there are statistics somewhere though the UK government might deny that, regarding exactly how much tax each different oil or gas field has generated since inception…A formula for a cut of this to be returned to Scotland might be negotiated.
Regarding your comments about the Navy, the SNP is commited to a Nuclear Free Scotland, so the SSNs would go south with reparations coming North for the Scottish tax-payers share of the fleet, likewise the Scottish taxpayer’s share of the CVFs would be in reparation.
Any new build requirements for a Scottish navy would not be “English Funded” but funded through the reparation funds paid by the government of the remnants of the UK. You might consider that to be the same, or playing word games, but I feel that it’s important that that distinction be made.
I do feel that overall there is a major misconception as to what the make up of Scots Armed Forces would be post-independence. Usually in a detrimental fashion, whether this is fuelled through a lack of knowledge or a concerted effort to mislead or simply people being patronising towards Scotland and the Scots.
I’d also ask the question of the remnants of the UK, where are they going to find the financial capability to fill the huge black hole that not having the revenue from Scotlands Oild and Gas would leave them in?
It’s argueable that London is only the financial power that it has become on the back of this revenue, and without it could London hold this place, and keep the remnants of the UK at existing tax levels…I seriously doubt it.
Your right Potagee that Scotland could rightly take a share of each type in service but I don’t think it would work out that way. Scotland just wouldn’t have the tax revenue to support all those types and I don’t think an independant Scotish government would be interested in the expeditionary nature of the current forces. I think Scotland would be looking towards something similar to the Irish air corp whilst demanding a financial reparation for the share of the types that were not transferred. Its a figure that could be worked out fairly easily considering 83.8% of the population are English and 8.5% is Scottish. Frankly Scotland isn’t entitled to that large a share anyway unless you throw in the oil and gas money argument which I can guarantee Westminster will say no to. For example the Scottish are entitled to a percentage share of Trident but an independent Scottish government probably wouldn’t want it. Far easier to transfer the infrastructure to Davenport and pay Scotland a financial reparation.
I’m sure I read somewhere, in print rather than on-line, that Scotland would remain in NATO, taking on the Scottish part of the UK defensive zone as-it-were. Possibly as part of an integrated ie existing defensive net.
This would require a much different model than that of the Irish air Corp.
There would be an airforce requirement for …
Air defence (Typhoon)
Transport/Logistics to support Scottish troops on Nato/UN/EU duties (Rotary and Fixed Wing though not in large numbers)
SAR ..I can see becoming either totally civillian or a permanent Coast Guard/Navy.
Maritime/eco-pollution Patrol aircraft.
I don’t see a need for a strike or CAS aircraft, though if one was envisaged, I’d personally like to see the F35 order changed assuming they were still being delivered for the Scottish ones to be F35A models.
Likewise I don’t see a need for Reccon/Intelligence gathering aircraft either.
I’m sure there is more but not off the top of my head at this time of night. 😉
I realise it’s all Politics, and American politicians are (ahem) the best that Money can buy.
Yes, but there is still so much for the Europeans to teach us poor colonials!:diablo:
I like how you pick up on the one throw away line, yet ignore the rest of the post.
Initially the Scottish airforce would be agreement recieve a percentage of each type currently in or on order for the RAF.
However there would be room for negotiation regarding what and how many.
For example, a Scottish Airforce might not have a use for GR4s so could perhaps take more than it’s percentage of Typhoons.
Likewise it might trade of it’s share of E3s for something else.
Thompson said the changes in requirements, as well as the tight timetable, are an “open invitation” to another appeal by Boeing.
Northrop or Boeing could appeal the final Pentagon proposal if they believe it is biased. Whoever loses the competition can appeal that decision, too.
An appeal of the final request for proposals would effectively delay the tanker competition until after a new administration takes over in January.
….
“After going round after round on one of our military’s most important and critically needed procurements, this draft RFP changes the rules of the game in overtime,” Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., said in a statement.
Source : http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/373802_tanker07.html
Maybe I’m being thick here, but doesn’t a new RFP make it a whole new game, with it’s own rules?
And how can anyone appeal the DOD’s proposal?
Surely that’s like saying…
“you don’t know what you want but we do and it’s our aircraft.”
When the only reason to appeal would be because their own aircraft doesn’t fit the requirement.
I realise it’s all Politics, and American politicians are (ahem) the best that Money can buy.
It seems to me that it’s no longer about the aircraft at all, rather a political urinating contest, with the splashes staining the reputation of Boeing in particular but Airbus/NG too.
Find a convenient dictator
Claim he has weapons of mass Destruction
Oh wait…damn someones already done that.
:diablo:
OK interesting views on the second part … what about the first part regarding refueling all the USAF aircraft including the Osprey?
Leaving a side the politics a moment, can I pick up a couple of things from that article for clarification …
It also would require a new tanker be capable of refueling all planes currently flown by the Air Force, a requirement the Northrop-EADS tanker was unable to meet and that the Air Force dismissed in the earlier competition.
Also, language in the bill would require the Pentagon to consider the cost of operating and maintaining the new tankers over a 40-year life cycle, rather than a 25-year cycle.
That could favor the Boeing plane, which according to one analysis would use $35 billion less in fuel over 40 years.
Firstly I didn’t think that either the A330 nor the 767 were capable of refueling all the USAF aircraft…in particular the Osprey. Can someone confirm or correct that view.
Surely a comparison between the aircraft on fuel burn is a bit of a red herring. The larger airbus could work out to be more than $35 Billion more useful over the 40 year period, by way of its cargo/multi mission capability. In other words less C17 flights for example into and out of theatre as the A330 could take cargo during transit as well as refueling duties.
Not as easy to calculate but likewise not as easy to discredit either.
As I pointed out earlier, the tickets were less than £17 when bought in advance. I paid £14 for mine.
£14 plus the £4 parking (which paid the farmer for the hire of the old runways as this isn’t museum land).
Deduct the standard museum admission of £5.50 (which includes a 10% voluntary contribution…The NMS is a registered Charity)
Leaves a 14 item display for a net cost of £12.50.
Mauld: The North/South flight line is ideal at East Fortune given that it’s an afternoon show. The sun when out is usually working its way behind the crowd line by afternoon bathing the aircraft in light.
As pointed out above East Fortune doesn’t own the full airfield, only the small section where the museum is, the rest it has to hire. If the display was to move around an use the Main E/W axis runway…where would the spectators park?
The BBMF at Leuchars is a different proposition as being in September and towards the end of the season. Namely not as many bookings and so can give themselves a transit window to get up here.
It’s unfortunate that East Fortune being at the end of July is the height of the season and the BBMF have so many commitments that they have to base themselves in the North East of England, rather than transiting into Edinburgh on the Friday and displaying at East Fortune before heading South to Newcastle.
To say wiped out is a little harsh…
They still managed to get 14 display items over the site…though admittedly not quite in the order that they had originally planned, and yes some of the displays were of the flat or rolling variety rather than full height, but for those of us with modest lenses on cameras, the aircraft are within range longer.
It’s become something of a tradition for the BBMF to make it no further than Newcastle when scheduled for the East Fortune show.
EDit: Further to above…Tickets were less than £17 if bought in advance.
16.15 today F58 Hunter “Miss Demeanour” banked onto fairly short finals for Runway 06 at Edinburgh airport ahead of East Fortune airshow tomorrow.
Can it possibly be a new case of faulty cargo door on the 747, the same issue that affected United Airlines Flight 811 ????
Might be best not to start adding 2 and 2 together just yet.
Lets just be grateful that no one was hurt and praise the crew on the controlled decent and landing.
You can’t blame the carriers for lack of fore-sight in not having replacement airframes organised long before this.
That goes for the MR2As as well as the R1s
The original TG was fine…it fit the time and place.
The thought of TG2 on the other hand sends a shiver.
Oh come on! Its about time there was a decent film done for the world of military aviation.
And you seriously think TopGun 2 will be it ?