ArthurBalmain,
The RAAF 707’s are not equipped with the boom, and all F-111 AAR training is done (for the time being) via USAF KC-135’s.
I stand corrected. Kind of silly though that the RAAF is now going for a boom & hose tanker with the A330, while the F-111s are going to be retired in the next few years.
Ken,
PS – Am I right in saying that the RAF E-3D Sentry is the only a/c that has BOTH methods ??
I think today only the RAF and AdlA E-3s are the only aircraft which are dual-recievers (not sure about the Saudis, but i think not). There used to be a number with the USAF back in the old days though: the F-101 and F-105 all had both receptacles and probes, while at least one F-84G also was capable for both systems. It was in one of the quizzes not too long ago. It’s interesting to know that the dual-capable fighters were all fighters which at least started out as combined SAC/TAC aircraft, while pure TAC aircraft from the 1950s (F-100, F-104, F-5) all had (or could be equipped with) a probe. I think the first USAF fighter which was boom-only was the Phantom, and this could very well have more to do with making this Navy aircraft a true USAF-bird than any serious operational considerations.
Another bonus of the hose method is that you can refuel helos with it. The only modern-ish helicopter i can think of which should have been able to have a boom recepient was the Mil V-12 😉
Dis,
And the boom can be used in turbulences, something the hose doesn’t like at all (although it is a dangerous for both).
Correct me if i’m wrong, but i think the one method which suffers most from turbulence is the ‘French way’, with a short hose and basket dangling from a boom since the short hose simply hasn’t got enough slack to cater for the turbulence. There is a pretty well-known picture of a USN or USMC Hornet which has ripped off the hose from a KC-135 under such circumstances. The Hornet did make it safely to the ground though.
I just checked for the fuel transfer speeds, and a through a boom fuel is pumped roughly twice as fast as through a hose. This means that if you’re using a three-point (possibly even two, considering the time needed for the recieving aircraft to hook up) tanker for a gaggle of light aircraft, fuel transfer from tanker to strike package is actually faster with the hose method. The faster fuel flow only has significance with single (and preferably large and thirsty) recieving aircraft.
ArthurThere were more Hips produced than Hueys. I think the total B204/205/212/412 family (all the way from XH-40 to the not-to-be-built-but-actually-rebuilt UH-1Y) production run is a bit below 15,000 (just under 10,000 of which were for the US Army alone). The Mi-8 family (Mi-17 is just an export designation, officially it’s the Mi-8M) has a production run of over 17,000.
Will these Helos be passed on to IAI for upgrade to western/NATO standards which has now become the norm in the Czech Republic?
Are you in a babbling mood again Ja? :rolleyes: Tell me what Czech military aircraft or helos you think have been upgraded by IAI, and i will tell you they weren’t…
ArthurThe only reason the USAF has opted for the boom system is because of SAC’s bombers in the 1950s. These needed boom refuelling just to get the massive volume of fuel from tanker to bomber without spending hours on end pumping fuel.
But TAC preferred hose refuelling, for the simple reason that a hose-equipped tanker can refuel more than one aircraft at the same time, bringing overall refuelling time for a whole flight/gaggle/section of aircraft down. I think that a three-point hose tanker actually has a higher fuel transfer rate than a boom tanker, but with the subtle difference that the hose tanker uses this fuel to fill up three aircraft rather than one. So the statement that “boom refuelling is far superior” is only true for big aircraft like bombers. For tactical aircraft and for general flexibility reasons (buddy-pods and the ease with which a probe can be added to an existing airfrale), one could say with reasons just as well or even better that hose refuelling is far superior.
As for the USAF not exporting boom technology, that is utter nonsence. Spain (KC-97), Israel (KC-97, B707), Iran (B707, B747), the Netherlands (KDC-10), Australia (B707 and soon A330), France, Turkey, Singapore (all KC-135) all have boom-equipped tankers.
ArthurThe KLu is pretty happy with it’s KDC-10s. The only thing is that the pair is used extensively for transport rather than tanking (there aren’t any sucklings on the very, very frequent flights to Kuwait and Kirgizstan), so there are some plans now to get a third DC-10 for transport only.
As for the possible effects for this for Airbus – at least with a new tender there will be some chance for a European airframe, rather than the previous f*ck-free-trade-let’s-lease-Boeing-for-a-ripoff. As with the KDC-10, the whole process with boom developing and testing has already been done (the Australian A330 tankers will have refuelling booms) so these are more off-the-shelf solutions than any other proposal. Also, it remains to be seen how long US grudges against Europe last – also depending on the 2005 administration of course.
ArthurAbout a hundred F-4s (2000) and a hundred Kfirs (C2/C7, or C10 upgrade). I don’t know much about the A-4, but it is still used in Israel and I don’t believe it was ever offered to be sold.
Israeli Skyhawks are doing quite well on the second-hand market. Indonesia has gotten two batches of former IDF/AF A-4Es since the early 1980s (these planes being former USN/USMC machines, and as such some of these aircraft have seen combat with all three countries to operate them), and quite a few A-4N’s are beign exported by now as well. I don’t know of any military customers for the A-4Ns though. At least BAe Flight Systems at Wittmund now operates a bunch of these, and i think a number have found their way to other customers too although these could well be just for spares.
ArthurWhile from a purely military point of view i agree with Eric, i think the F-35 is far too important for the US’ military aviation industry to get canned. Without an American competitor on the export market to counter the sales potentials of the Typhoon, Rafale and the various Asian and possibly Russian fighters on offer, there soon wouldn’t be an American combat jets industry left. I don’t think that the US will be ever be able again to develop a fighter purely for national use (at some point that budget deficit is going to have it’s effects), and the whole F-35 program to me seems neatly wrapped up in international obligations that it is almost impossible to cancel.
However, it remains to be seen if the F-35 is going to be any good. One and a half metric tonnes overweight is nothing more but an incredible f*ckup from the guys at Lockheed. It indeed has to be seen if obesity like that can be solved without severely cutting in the aircraft’s specifications.
I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again: Aardpiglet. I’m sure in the end an interesting F-35 will roll out which will be pretty capable in a pretty small part of the original requirements. We’ve seen such cost-cutting inter-service Joint fighter projects before…
ArthurPerhaps the televotes are a nice indicator for the people of a certain country who actually make a deal out of the event, for whatever reason. I’m pretty sure that countries like the Netherlands or Norway where the song contest is mainly a gay-event (not homosexuals per se, but the more stigmatic poofs, queens and fairies) generally have a different preference in their votes than countries which seem to vote more for nationalistic reasons, like Cyprus for example.
But then again, i would have to watch the stuff to actually say something sensible about that. And this is not going to happen, not even totally drunk, with the music turned off, and Front 242/Ministry/NIN/Laibach blazing on my stereo.
Didn’t the Ukrainian singer offer a lot of visual compensation though? Or was she a man again?
ArthurKfadrat, i would have deleted that post if i could. You can feel about Israel as you wish, but there is no need to deny the Holocaust for it. German efficiency simply had those millions of Jews and to a lesser extent Gypsies, homosexuals and other unwanted elements which they’ve killed far too well documented to simply deny it.
ArthurDon’t forget Sauron is Canadian. So i guess i’d have to react all jumpy when someone posts something i could interpret as being anti-German 🙂
ArthurHey, i like to give more than one way to read my posts. Just leave it to Sauron to interpret anything into the alleged blatant anti-Americanism of mine. I could have compared Berg’s horrible murder with an even more gruesome death in a gas chamber. That would be a difficult one – would that be anti-German, or anti-American as well?
😛
ArthurIsn’t every country? The only place it gets taken serious here in the Netherlands is in gey bars. I can’t see why anyone not getting drunk/laid to the background tunes of the Village People and George Michael even bothers to waste brain cells to something as silly as the Eurovision song contest.
But then again, some people want to see their political paranoia confirmed in everything :rolleyes:
ArthurI strongly reject the posting of fake pictures. The genuine ones (both the published, and reportedly the unpublished ones) combined with the reports from former prisoners should be more than enough for any sane person.
ArthurDying by being stabbed in the back, and subsequently getting beheaded lasts less than a minute.
Frying a person on the electric chair can last longer than five minutes. Torturing for five days prior to ‘dying while asleep’ lasts five days.
Now which one is the most humane one of the three?
ArthurTommyhawk. That’s how the Soviets called all their lend-lease machines.
ArthurHang on to your ego – Frank Black (original by the Beach Boys)
The version of the former Pixies-frontman (although the Pixies themselves also recorded a version) had a lovely drunk-captain-Iglo-riding-on-a-camel-rhytm in it. ‘
Also:
Wonderful World – Nick Cave and Shane McGowan (originaly by Louis Armstrong)
Girlfriend in a coma – Mojo Nixon (originaly by Morrissey)
Geburt einer Nation – Laibach (a vastly improved version of Queen’s horrible One Vision)
Das Model – Rammstein (original of course from Kraftwerk)
Stand by your man – Blues Brothers (original by Dolly P, the Blues Brother’s version is hilarious)
Drinking and driving – Dropkick Murphies (original by The Business)
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