richw_82Really showing your ignorance there, Rich. Work isn’t being held up at all. And how do you know just how original the parts are that are being used? Answer is you don’t.
Lee, okay, educate me.
As Sabrejet has posted, both the BBP team and FAAM have been posting information, and the details of what were recovered and rebuilt some years ago is widely known. BBP showed how they were re-using every scrap of original material they could, and the techniques used to salvage, repair and rebuild. FAAM only shows photos of “look at this new nut next to the old one”, and now some rather well done CAD.
Work being held up – The Barracuda went back at the beginning of the year. So far we have been shown some parts mounted in a jig, and there’s a six month later statement that something apparently didn’t come off the lorry that they think may have been loaded (though can’t be sure – even the Police investigation appears to have been unable to establish what went where and how). The statement says “Not having these items will make it particularly difficult to progress the rebuild of the Barracuda tail section.” .
Do we call that a hold up or not? It sure sounds like one. Progress with BBP was fairly steady, and quite visual. So far even on the JustGiving page for the Barracuda back in the FAAM’s hands there’s precious little new information that makes me want to donate. It honestly looks as if its reverting back to the loosely assembled mashup on a frame that it was before.
Makes me laugh: Swordfish is nothing to do with FAAM. And it has brand new spars, not original ones.
So, please be informed before passing judgement.
Laugh away, its a fair point, I got my wires crossed. I guess we can’t credit FAAM at all for doing a great job on it then can we? But then again, they’re all part of “Fly Navy” and various Trustees hold multiple posts across Fleet Air Arm Museum, Fly Navy Heritage Trust, Royal Navy Heritage Flight and numerous other little branches off it, so can you be 100% sure who is to do with what?
As for the part about spars on the Swordfish, its an airworthy aircraft with a continuous history and the work was done by those that support the design (BAEs) – as opposed to a rebuild of an extinct type from crash relics by volunteers. So while the Swordfish spars are new, they are still original equipment – as opposed to trying to remanufacture something that would have been supplied by a subcontractor like Dowty. Going any further here and we’re straight down into the replica/dataplate rebuild topic that has been done to death on this forum.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82Why would they go get another one when they had (past tense) a perfectly good one to start with, the exact current whereabouts of which has yet to be determined?
Your post reads more like “Why should they…” rather than “Why would they..”
The same reason anyone else that has had something go missing does – to replace it. Key word in your post – they HAD an original. Same as one our members HAD all original parts in his Shackleton nose section, prior to its vandalism.
If the FAAM are hoping that the parts find their way back; fine. But in the meantime, why not find another oleo, or go work on another part of the aircraft rather than holding everything up and wasting time with CAD for new build parts? They are not being forced to remanufacture – they’re taking the easy way out which is make new parts. Maybe the RAFM should have taken a leaf out of their book and just remanufactured a new Dornier instead of raising the Channel one. It would look the same, so what’s the problem?
They’ll get my support when the actions warrant it, and I’ll bet others feel the same. The recent work on the Swordfish has been exemplary, but the Barracuda project needs to decide what it wants to be and fast. Replica or restoration? The original brief was use as much original structure as possible. Now it seems to be throw it together into a Barracuda shape as fast as possible.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82I get it, and I read the press release right the first time – it still reads like a thinly veiled accusation. Its easier to make a replica of something rather than go and find another. How many Barra wrecks are out there? There’s still a few high ground ones with wreckage left and a couple in Norway. Surely there’s an oleo kicking about, its not exactly a lightweight item.
You might want to find yourself a moderators account before making any more ‘suggestions’ about my opinions. You want yours respected, respect mine.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82I thought this was supposed to be a restoration rather than a replica build? It certainly seemed to be the case before it ended up going south back to the FAAM, but I guess originality is now out the window in a rush to create something that looks like a Barracuda in an attempt to save face?
richw_82It is PA474. I think that was one of her early schemes, which was then replaced with AJ – G?
richw_82Its been coming for a long time, and frankly I’m amazed that some aircraft have lasted as long as they have. In time, we will lose every large aircraft kept outdoors without regular maintenance, and many of the smaller ones as well.
I reckon some of the others won’t make it long term, especially in the classic jet world. What happens when the parts supply dries up?
richw_82Next Saturday (4th July) is the second flying display of this year at Coventry with “The Baginton Air Pageant” a bit of a fond throw-back to the 1950s air displays at Baginton Aerodrome when that event was the venue for The King’s Cup. Included (and the highlight for me) will be a ‘just-for-fun re-creation of The King’s Cup with handicappers to try and achieve those exciting finishes I can remember as the pilots dived for the finish line. Spectators will be able to enter a competition to win a flight in the winning aircraft.
I’m quite looking forward to this and I know the rest of the Shackleton team are also hoping for good weather. We refuelled on Saturday ready for the event, and hope to be running all four engines with no red lights showing up on the undercarriage indicator as we shut down this time!
Regards,
Rich
richw_82I was looking at this weekend’s Air Pageant at Coventry when I spotted this event:-
http://www.classicairforce.com/event-list
It doesn’t seem to have had much promotion and may be a wash out because of it but I expect I’ll be there anyway.
Lately the CLassic Air Force events are starting to get better. Its slow beginnings (again..) but the Air Pageant should see if the numbers are going to be a regular thing or if the opening day event back in May was just luck. We’ll have some surplus Shackleton kit up for grabs at the AeroJumble event before we try our luck again with evilBay.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82The Baltic one mentioned seems to be the one that was in a Swedish newspaper a few years ago when divers were trying to identify it, and isn’t a recent discovery. There was a post up about it on warrelics, and subsequently on here too.
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/armour-weapons-aircraft-recovery/crash-site-baltic-sea-83739/
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?110959-Halifax-tailwheel
Nice find as it is, the photos and reports suggest its not anywhere near intact.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82I would love to see one built as a Halton. It would be nice to have the missing link between Halifax and Hastings filled, and the natural metal ones look fantastic.
richw_82I had hoped we wouldn’t veer this far off course. My mentioning W7656 was purely to point out there are likely to be better candidates than a needle in the haystack search in the Irish Sea for an aircraft that could have drifted for miles during the period it sank. As well as the action of currents, aircraft have a habit of ‘gliding’ underwater as they sink.
There are several known ditchings off Tiree, at least one off Gibraltar in the 1950’s, there’s got to be a better candidiate out there than LW170.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82No, there was one thought to be left on board NA337- the Flight Engineer, hence the extensive sifting of the mud as it came out of the aircraft post recovery. The ‘assumption’ on record is that he got out the aircraft unnoticed and died in the waters of Lake Mjosa. At least there’s some comfort in that while he has no known grave he has one utterly magnificent memorial.
Its all very well shouting “War grave” but if it works for one, it works for them all – or not at all. It shouldn’t be used purely when convenient to your cause. Besides which it doesn’t mean W7656 can’t be recovered, just that as a designated grave any interference needs the correct permissions. With it being in the location it is and the photos showing the escape hatches open, there’s a similar possibility that her crew also got out and never made it to shore as the Halifax was known to have a good survivability rate of its crews. How will you ever know? Recover the aircraft..!
Regards,
Rich
richw_82Whats your source for that? And why set a precedent with this aircraft when they have let others be recovered with missing/killed in action crew aboard? The idea of treating a wreck as a grave just because that is where it fell is pretty distateful in my opinion but thats another argument entirely, the crew should be brought home if possible.
To put it into perspective; there were crew lost on Halifax NA337, and the recovery went ahead anyhow.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82I’ve followed the search… But just like the Titanic, where it sank isn’t necessarily where it hit the sea floor.
richw_82Cees its not naysaying. I appreciate what they’re doing and Elvington’s Halifax captivates me every time I see it. But the recently found Norwegian Hally is a way better candidate than LW170. It wouldn’t be the first aircraft recovered that had mia crew on board either, so the ‘war grave’ argument doesn’t carry weight. Its not like its a 45,000 ton warship that can never be lifted off the bottom.
If there are other located aircraft then maybe they should be the target. If the needle in the haystack which is LW170 is found it looks as if she’s going to be repurposed as Bomber Command memorial rather than remaining a Coastal Command aircraft which I find a bit off.
Regards
Rich
Sign In
