We, the west, in the general sense. But you knew that.

I have provided at least some data to support my point in the chart above. U.S. defense spending in 1962 = 12% of GDP, social spending 3%. 45 years later, the ratio is reversed. How many billion will it take to “lift” the poor out of poverty when they won’t even help themselves by steering clear of self imposed obstacles (drugs, booze, pregnancies)?

You, on the other hand, have yet to provide any data at all. You keep saying how secure “we” are, but you cannot provide anything at all to substantiate your point other than repeated statements that our defenses are adequate. In spite of thousands of years of history, from Sun Tzu to the present, regarding the value of preparedness, you claim everything is just hunky-dory. Why? Please provide something other than your feelings.

No you have provided data showing that defence spending has decreased as a percentage of budget. You have provided nothing to show why it should rise again.

I never said that we should not be prepared, the point I am making is that we are adequately prepared as it is.

And on paper the US navy and UK fleet could do the same to the serb forces in Kosovo… the point is how are they going to defeat the Iranian forces if the Iranian forces are not in their barracks, or lined up in the sand ready to be attacked? What force is going to defeat Irans military in 48hrs… and will those Iranians welcoming western forces into their country be anything like the Iraqi welcome?

Would be interesting seeing Super Hornets up against F-14s though…

And of course the Iranians don’t need to use their navy to close the persian gulf they already have antiship missiles with the reach to block it.

You mis-understand, there is no intention of invading Iran, if it comes to it the objective would simply be to systematically demolish Irans armed forces and economy, not occupy it. This is exactly the sort of campaign for which the US military is dessigned and the Kosovo model does not fit.

Didn’t the number of uniformed military in France actually out number the Germans on Sept. 1, 1939?

Technology is a critical lever that has increased the pace of everything. An earlier post said that ships took years to build and fleets took decades. A modern conflict could well be over in hours, before the attackee even realized they were under attack. Economies, however, do appear to still take decades to build up.

At the same time the speed of development is picking up, distance is decreasing due to more and more direct air service, and to better communications. Population continues to explode. Many countries in the mostly Christian (at least culturally), mostly educated, West have shrinking popluations growth rates, while the mostly uneducated, mostly poor, mostly Muslim countries have exploding populations. I picture them as a seething mass which blames the West (and Jews, as always, sigh) for their problems.

The West is seemingly in conflict on every front: direct economic assault by China, cultural conflict with radical Islam, conflict on several fronts from a supposedly re-energised Russia, internal dissent by supposed “allies” like the self-destructive French, internal social conflict by leftist ostriches who only want ever more social spending (that actual practice has shown does not solve the problems for which it was intended (anecdotal evidence indicates many social problems may actually be exacerbated by increased spending))

Those potentially on the front lines of the most direct military threat by China, namely Japan and Australia, seem to me to have a little more intense interest in protecting themselves than those encased in myopic, socialistic, mainland Europe. To say that Europe, or Japan and Australia, or the U.S., or indeed any of the west, does not face real (clear and present danger) threats appears to me to be, well, ridiculous.

And that is the classic paranoid enemies everywhere view. The fact is that the only one of those that presents a serious military threat in even the medium term is Islam. Russia can never match Europe, China has shown no intention of breaking the status-qou with the US. The fact is that none of these countries is openly aggressive and current defence spending and alliance structures are more than capable of insuring that there is zero temptation for an expansionist power.

I have an uncanny feeling that MMRCA is going the SHORNET way… I am now least bothered about the sanctions etc.. I have a feeling that the Indo-US relationship is moulding itself into a very different form.. and at a pace not imagined off by most..

Whilst I am not convinced that the Snornet is a shoe-in I certainly agree with the India-US relationship thing. Ultimately both countries are liberal capitalist democracies with very similar long term security concerns.

The most recent rumours about PAK-FA (according to russian forums and other sources) include:
– 12 missile A2A capability
– possible missile-defence missiles on board
– 360 deg radar coverage (in X-band and L-band) by 8 AESA (!!!) radars!
– wide IRST zone (almost all around)
– 2M supercruise capability
– dimensions a little bit less than Su-27
– no canards, a probability of pure delta scheme (like Mirage2000)
:diablo:

Given what we have seen that is all possible at least, the one I have the most doubt about is the pure delta layout.