I’m pretty sure the CAMM system will be the de facto Rapier replacement, and it seems to be an ASRAAM-derived system. There have been suggestions that it will not actually be a simple ASRAAM launched from the ground though, but rather based heavily on that missile.

That seems to be what is happening, a new tri-service missile to replace Rapier , seawolf and ASRAAM, they talk about using ASRAAM technology and that could mean anything.

That is just pitiful.

With only 9 airframes at the moment, Australia is the second biggest user for the Eurocopter Tiger?

The Tiger is a pan-European RAH-66 Commanche, to put it bluntly.

That does not make any sense and is a ridiculous comment, the Comanche was cancelled without service and the Tigre is two country project that has already secured 2 export orders.:rolleyes:

“Am I completely wrong or is the case that the new AB’s dont have Phalanx and that it is being removed from earlier units to make way for other equipment?’

I was going by this from my outdated 2005-2006 combat fleets:

“Phalanx BlockiB CIWS Phalanx mounts, however were bacfitted into DDG 85-86b during 2002 delays in the ESSM program and will probably be backfitted through DDG 90-102; DDG 103 to 112 are to have Phalanx as completed.”

But after a quick glance at a couple of the newer ships they arent armed with Phalanx.

I havent heard of removals.

Will check into this further.

Thanks rick, this is just something that I have not had time to keep up with. I seem to remember something about the space being used for more EW equipment?:confused:

“I think another factor is that Phalanx is a very compact system and a lot of USN ships, if not most, would simply lack the space (without major modification) to take a larger more capable system.”

True enough.

There is also the “factor” that the USN had planned to move to an all RAM and ESSM configuration for CIWS.

With the Phlanx mounting being adapted to launch 11 RAM missiles in addition to the larger 21 missile launcher

But both have been slow to enter service.

The Burke IIA DDGs were to dispense with Phalanx but have all been completed(Some may have had it backfitted after completion) with Phalanx because of delays with ESSM.

“It is worth noting that DDG1000 is to get a pair of Bofors 57mm as CIWS.”

Yes it was a late addition that had two things going for it the USCG had chosen it for its new cutters and it was a good fit for the new LCS portion of the so-called “family” of ships.

Both the DDX and LCS programs have had serious programmatic problems. Where that may leave the 57mm program is problematic

The rather long gestation of the 35mm “millenium” gun may yet result in USN service. Sorry I havent kept up with any recent decisons or developments concerning that gun.

Am I completely wrong or is the case that the new AB’s dont have Phalanx and that it is being removed from earlier units to make way for other equipment?:confused:

The thing with the DDX is that they are trying to put far to much new stuff on one ship, for instnace they could have done without 155 AGS and just made a stealthy mount for the existing 5inch and I see no reason why the Mk-41 could no have been adapted for peripheral mounting rather than going for a whole new VLS design. For me the important bits are the new hull, propulsion system ans SPY-3. The problem with LCS is that it is on top of everything else.

CAMM (Common Anti-Air Modular Missile)

“The UK Ministry of Defense is funding an MBDA study of future family of ‘anti-air’ weapons known as the Common Anti-Air Modular Missile (CAMM). The new weapon will utilize the airframe and some of the components used with the Advanced Short-Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM) and introduce advanced and enhanced capabilities for aircraft currently deploying this short range, heat seeking missile. But CAMM will be aimed at more applications than AAM enhancements. By meeting tri-service requirements, the new missile could be used to replace existing weapons such as the land-based Rapier point-defense missile system, and naval Sea Wolf missile. CAMM is expected to be available for deployment from around 2018 onward, coinciding with the planned retirement of the SeaWolf system”

http://www.defense-update.com/events/2007/summary/dsei07_missiles.htm#camm

BTW, there’s a Sylver A35, smaller than A43, which might enable fitting CAMM on smaller vessels, but according to what I can find, so far it’s meant for VL Mica & VT1. First successful launch earlier this month.

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=106352

Thats the one, fits in with the completion of the CVF’s as well.;) Of course that is making the almost certainly flawed assumption that neither gets delayed cancelled or some other strange activity that the MoD can invent.

The A-35 sounds like a rather wasted effort to me, I was under the impression that the VL VT-1 had disappeared without a trace after little more than a few artists impressions and the VL Mica can and does use the Seawolf VLS tubes, and lets be honest you are not going to fit anything else in a tube that short. Although I suppose there might be weight/space and commonality issues here too so it may make sense from that perspective.

I would, at the very least, hope that the new carriers will be fitted with decent sized sponsons, allowing other systems to be fitted when/if needed. It is always easier to update weapons when there is already space, but adding it later is a nightmare. The new carriers should really have four defensive points, i.e. either side aft, and either side of the flightdeck just ahead of the angled deck. The 35mm Millenium gun certainly seems to be a very good way to go, especially if it is supplemented by a missile based system like the RIM-116 RAM, probably fitted just on the forward sponsons. I wouldn’t bet on getting much in the way of Aster missiles though – they simply take up too much space (if you want a sensible number). A better bet might be to develop a quad-packed boosted Meteor, to fit into the Sylver launchers. This would be a heck of a system for both the carriers and the destroyers/frigates – the smaller ships would be able to carry a mix of Aster 15 and Meteors.

I have often mused how effective a modified Meteor would be if put in top of a ASTER-30 booster in place of the existing dart.:diablo: Also IIRC there is a program at the moment in its very early phases to provide a replacement for Rapier and Sea Wolf so that might be an option.

I am a massive fan of the 35mm Millenium gun, I really think it is the best gun based CIWS on the market right now.

If the French are able to make space on PA2 for ASTER (we dont know if they will yet but they got 32 on CdG and shes 20k tonnes lighter) then I see no reason why CVF could not theoretically carry it.