Oh yes. That’ll have Al Qaeda and the serried ranks of Islamic Fundamentalism quaking in their sandals, that will….. :rolleyes:

I’m considering goose myself, actually.

Makes a change from effing turkey and it’s authentically traditional, too.

What wine would go best with goose, though? Any suggestions?

I was hoping to be more antagonistic than scary but hey whatever.;) My personal wine preference for Goose is a deep heavy red it just seems to sit well with it.

Personally I prefer Goose over Turkey……….this year I think I will call it Mohamed.:p

What fascinates me about Varyag is that up to a couple of years ago we had a flurry of pictures of her at Dailan. These have now dried up over the last year (the Chinese gov are clearly cracking down when it comes to naval pictures).

That has been intriguing me to, we have really seen nothing of her since she got her smart new paint job and that must have been nearly a year ago now. I have always been of the opinion that the Chinese authorities have far more control over the leaking of images than we have been lead to believe and that their is a strict policy for both internal and external uses.

The only thing I can guess is the IN were still locked into the idea of buying second hand when it comes to large types like carriers. The ADS will be the first new carrier they will ever purchase.

The problem was the market for second hand carriers isn’t that good. American super carriers are just too big and the non nuclear ones available are worn out. The Clemeceau is worn out as well and the Foch isn’t exactly good (The Sao Paulo as we should call her now has been a terrible burden on the Brazillian navy) and would involve a return to CATOBAR operations. Another problem with the Foch was none of the newer types (including the Rafale) can safely operate off her due to weight and length limitations. HMS Invincible could of been sold to the IN at a drop of a hat (the RN would of loved the money) but the Harrier is now a type in the autumn of its life and the JSF is really too big to operate off her (if India even considered the type – which as said before is unlikely). That leaves Russia with the Gorshkov or the Ukraine with the Varyag. Out of those two choices arguably the Gorshkov is the safer especially as part of a big arms package.

Yes new build would of been the best option…

Exactly, the irony is that China bought the Varyag, and whether she will ever put to sea again is highly debatable but there is no doubt that they have extracted an awful lot of information from her.

This is just starting to get comical now, surely this deal must win the ‘worst procurement of the decade’ title now?:D

IIRC there is now a fair degree of agreement here on what should have been done. India should have tied up with a European yard maybe ordered the first hull built in that yard with the next built in India. The benefits are obvious, a class of new build ships, all more or less identical and built specifically to India’s needs.

With F-35A, RNoAF can maul any aircraft or surface vessel in the North fleet that comes within 1100km of Bodo. Stealth can give the F-35s first shot without becoming a SAM magnet like an F-16.

If the F-35 gets the Kongsberg NSM as has been suggested it will be a very powerful ASuW asset. A very stealthy aircraft with very capable sensors and data links, carrying a very stealthy and modern missile internally will represent one of the best anti-ship assets in existence.:diablo:

Instead thinking burials You must think the higher cost with JSF F-35, the capability and efficiency but even ground support etc.
One JSF F-35 cost more than $122 Mil and is built as a fighter aircraft with limited ground attack capability. This is fact!
One JAS 39 NG cost less than $40 Mil and is built as a multi role aircraft (including almost the same fighter resources as JSF F-35).
Both has a 1,000 module AESA radar, helmet mounted sights, IRST missiles but the different is, as well as in the Eurofighter and Rafale, Gripen has two seat for a pilot and an operator gold worth in the new battle environment they both are going to meet in the next decade.
Don’t forget that unique fighter aircraft, as JSF F-35 and even F-22A, need an extra and completely unnecessary tanker resource instead an Air Force acquiring the fighter resources built in a multi-role aircraft. You will save money at the same time as You can build up a strong forces with fewer but more efficiency multi role aircrafts.
The most ultimate must be to do a larger B-52 Stratojet well equipped.
Install a 10,000 module AESA radar in the nose and a small AESA in the back and equip the crew with helmet mounted sights and all sorts of missiles and You have a well defended Flying Fortress. You don’t need to invite a Russian pilot in dogfights in their Su-35 – the long range missiles are doing the very advanced manoeuvres or their UCAV fighters.

Dude you are hilarious.:D

The recurring theme here is that one can achieve miracles when ones tender bits are in a sling!. This is, of course, true…. but only to an extent.

We managed to get the SHARs rated for a whole raft of dumb ordnance on the transit to the South Atlantic theatre that would otherwise have taken years to get cleared. This was a minor miracle in anyones book, but, it was all relatively simple trial and error work. The RAF had a few more significant issues trying to get Paveway cleared on the GR3’s to the extent that the impact of the weapon fell far short of what it should’ve been.

It is that difference between the simple ‘mechanical’ modification and integration of a smart weapon with its attendent volumes of new operational software that makes all the difference here.

ASRAAM as case in point. ASRAAM is launched from precisely the same rail as the existing AIM-9’s. It can use the same electrical interface as Sidewinder too and, to an extent, can be used as a more powerful, longer ranged Sidewinder, allegedly, using no more than the AIM-9 fit. To get the benefits of the IIR seeker though, including use of the missile as a bodge-up IRST, a far more complex interface and software integration is necessary. The coding for the latter not being something that can be knocked-together in a few days in an auxilliary machine space on transit to the OpArea.

……….likewise podded radars, likewise AIM-120!.

Phelgan,

The word remarkable scarcely does it justice. You must remember that the RAF were insanely jealous of the FA2 as they had no equivalent aircraft that was declared to NATO as a full-up swingrole type!.

You must also check the timeline and take note of how long the FA2 survived once the RAF got operational control of Joint Force Harrier!. Makes for interesting reading.

Unfortunately the capability I described IS all thats left!. We’ll be ok with GR9 if the air threat is kept down to day fighters or older all-weather types, preferably subsonic, operating outside of friendly radar coverage!.

My suggestion was (as I thought I had made clear) that said work had already been largely done but that the idea had not been productionised, instead that it was kept at a stage where it could be implemented if required.