sealordlawrence^^… Does make a valid point but the navy would need great restructuring and the surface combatants of the fleet are in a dire mess..
Are they? The Type 23’s are still very powerful ships and there are plenty of upgrades to keep them that way. They are far from a dire mess. And the Type-45’s are exceptional AAW ships with good command facilities but lacking an enemy for the very high end PAAMS system to deal with.
C.2 should ideally be entering service around 2016 (with the first few hulls replacing the T22B3’s and the later hulls replacing the T23’s without the T2087’s), it is a no thrills warship and doesn’t dip into the funds that much, C.1 isn’t likely to enter service until after Vanguards are replaced (the remaining T23’s will be SLEP’d no doubt about it)[i do realise this means the only vessel capable of serving as a task force flag ship is the expensive to operate T45 but there are little alternatives] so there should be enough yard space and funds for 2 new lph’s with ISD’s of Early 2021 and late 2022 (wouldn’t be too hard to expect the Ark to serve until 2021 and Ocean to 2022)
We will see what happens with the surface combatants, I would not be at all surprised to see the Frigate fleet replaced with something quite different from what is currently being discussed. Beyond the obvious funding issues and the fact that the T23’s are good for another decade the RN also seems to be grappling with the difficulty of defining what it actually needs the ships to do. Overseas inspiration is lacing due to the unique composition of the RN with possibly only the RNLN OPV’s now entering production offering a potential post cold war example. This is not the subject of this thread and further discussion would be to distract from an interesting topic but the biggest problem for the RN frigates is deciding exactly what missions they need to undertake.
sealordlawrenceH_K, this certainly is an interesting topic and you have made an excellent post, however I would argue that the categorisation is somewhat artificial as is demonstrated by the fact that your largest vessel has twice the displacement of your smallest and is only about 16,000t short of a Nimitz.
We also have a number of distinct groups here, firstly there are the war built hulls that were reused. I would argue that Victorious and Eagle are the most impressive in this sense only because of the extremely thorough nature of their reconstructions. Obviously Midway falls into this category too. However they are also limited by their size. They were the biggest carriers around when laid down but their is only so much you can do to a hull. The british ships fall into a category that I like to call battle carriers, these are ships that are primarily orientated towards peer rival warfare, in this case with the Soviet Union. Thus there rebuilds produced ships designed to cooperate with AAW destroyers and act as platforms for strike aircraft armed with nuclear AShM’s intended to destroy Stalin’s heavily armoured surface units. CdG follows this battle carrier doctrine but she is an unfortunate compromise that has resulted in a vessel that is really a bit to small and that suffers from poor availability that raises serious questions about the usefulness of a single carrier to a navy. In many ways the ship is a hangover from the cold war and it is worthy of note that the french took a very different approach with the Mistral class and the thus far still born PA-2. PA-2’s sister, CVF, is a very different concept to the previously mentioned ships, rather than a battle carrier the class is the product of western naval and political dominance. The ship is not expected to engage anything near a peer rival and is thus expected to act as platform for amphibious and strike operations against much weaker entities. therefore the class lacks the mass missile and CIWS armament of the likes of CdG and the proposed CVA-01. I would argue that CVF is the very pinnacle of carrier design and a perfect representation of how procurement should follow doctrine that should follow foreign policy. When these ships are commissioned and combined with the UK’s exisiting very impressive amphibious fleet along with Tomahawk firing Astutes and Apache and Chinook carrying LPH’s the UK will have a power projection capability unseen in Europe since the collapse of the great Empires. Indeed I would argue that given the current world security environment Britain should make a high priority of pushing for two LPH’s rather than further surface combatants.
sealordlawrenceYou mean the same paper that lists 12 type 45 destroyers ? The same paper, that further lists the cut to 9 under equipment options ?
And? What is important is not the numbers it mentions but the foreign policy and thus doctrinal objectives that it lays down. You do not understand them and that is why you are repeating all this nonsense.
sealordlawrenceExactly. It is a oversized helo carrier. What can it do LHD’s can’t ?
It can’t launch F-35C. You know, the model with the long range.
The CVF design (or ordered layout) trades a higher sortie rate and maybe some easier training for the ability of it’s airgroup to perform deep strikes.
In your opinion this is a great idea, I beg to differ.
You have not even read the 1998 SDR so your opinion is completely worthless.
sealordlawrenceSure he will. Welding is no rocket science..
No it is welding, and in a marine work it is still a skilled undertaking.
Don’t see a single reason why I should disregard an opinion of a skilled experienced specops soldier and take yours instead. Who are you at all? :rolleyes:
You will never know who I am and will never provide you with such a reason, but i do know that your so called article is nonsense and is proved so by the 10-4 soldier comment.
Roughly the same. A day only has 24 hours, whether in the USA, Britain or Georgia. Conscript armies are a different story but small professional armies surely don’t hire men in order to let them just lie around.
Exactly my point (except in the Middle East), they train them and train them hard but that is still dependent upon the institutional knowledge and funding level.
Considerably older men are no longer SpecOps. They are glad to find a job as PMCs or security staff.
Again exactly, they become part of the military education process and thus pass on their skills and knowledge, something that is highly restricted in conscript armies. This results in generations of mental and physical conditioning be passed on.
sealordlawrenceWhilst I don’t want the thread locked Badgers comment is hardly going to help and I am fed up with Sealord lording over the forum.
I have asked you for facts for a proper discussion and all you have provided is insults and anger.
I made a fair post and he decided to miss read it and then poo poo my opinion.
If it was fair you would have been able to support it.
Excellent posts Badger 1968, Wanshan and Scooter, and you have my apologies for falling for Fedaykins trolling.:o
sealordlawrenceThis involves criticism of putting big name billionaires behind bars, privatization, etc.
I dont think anyone has criticised priavtisation either.
sealordlawrenceIn my eyes a waste of lives and money at all. The ISAF can not do the work for the people there. Either those are willing to fight for their well-being alone and do accept a helping hand about that or the ISAF has to leave at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Enduring_Freedom
and 7 years later does see the return of the Taliban. Afghanistan is still a tribes society, which does live from help-money and drug-money as before. Does someone see the restrictions imposed at home to prevent terrorism lowered in the meanwhile? :diablo:
Your strange desire to undermine the sacrifice of brave men is extremely insulting.:mad::mad::mad:
sealordlawrenceSnow Patrol, for the very simple reason that the song works perfectly within the context provided the album Final Straw. It is one of the finest albums of its timeframe and the most underrated of the 3 snow patrol albums (not including their earlier unsuccessful efforts as Polar Bear). It is a lyrical and musical masterpiece that Snow Patrol have yet been able to match and are unlikely to be able to do so following the departure of the a key member following Final Straw.
sealordlawrenceSnow Patrol, for the very simple reason that the song works perfectly within the context provided the album Final Straw. It is one of the finest albums of its timeframe and the most underrated of the 3 snow patrol albums (not including their earlier unsuccessful efforts as Polar Bear). It is a lyrical and musical masterpiece that Snow Patrol have yet been able to match and are unlikely to be able to do so following the departure of the a key member following Final Straw.
sealordlawrenceMost people here and on other forums criticized Putin, when he was president, for cracking down so hard on corrupt govt. officials all over.
I do not know which posts you have been reading but I have never seen anyone on this forum criticizing Putin for cracking down on corruption.
sealordlawrenceNot ashamed to claim that. Just a live firing “exercise” for all who were willing to participate in that, like the Harriers in Afghanistan.
All you have done is undermine the sacrifice of the British troops in Afghanistan, I am sure the 130 who have died there thought that it was a ‘live firing exercise’.:mad::mad::mad:
sealordlawrenceNow maybe you can figure out why Putin is trying so hard to fight corruption in whatever way possible?
Were you attempting to be sarcastic? The fact is that corruption is crippling the Russian Armed Forces.
sealordlawrenceI forgot that the Russian spec ops wired the roof and killed all those poor people. :rolleyes: Oh wait, it wasn’t them was it? Not to mention no spec ops group has ever had to face a situation so dire.
Unlike you I will keep this thread on topic.
So engineering halted for 20 years. Yeah right. 😀 Good argument there.
An excellent and factualy answer actually. Perhaps you could tell us how much military shipbuilding went on in Russia between between the end of the 1980’s and now?:rolleyes:
sealordlawrenceThe defense budget may be larger, but you have to consider that a lot of the money is going to the Strategic Rocket Forces to continue Topol-M acquisition and RS-24 development. Lots of acquisition programs to continue funding as well, like the Su-34 and the Dolgorukiy class SSBN.
Not to mention the rampant corruption that absorbs a large proportion of the budget. 2.2billion Rubles in the first 9 months of this year alone, a truly shocking state of affairs.
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