Lets get another fact straight, Hezbollah didnt start the bombardment of israel with rockets, israel was the one who started airstrikes against lebanon for the capture of its soldiers. Hezbollah then responded with crude useless weapons that are more of a terror than anything else. I found it wrong for civilians on both side to be targetted, but as allways Israel showed no concern for taking civilian life and excessive use of force.

I never said that I only care for western lives.

And actually Hezbollah was bombarding Israel long before the soldiers were kidnapped.

Both the facts you used for that post are wrong.:mad:

He isen’t saying that democracy is evil becouse Chile bought planes, but that how douple-standartly UK has acted. Right hand speaks about demorcacy and how evil some dictatorship is in some place and left hand sells weapons and supports dictators elsewhere. Isen’t so hard to understand is it?

Equally sickening is that with those excuses you approve massmurder of thousands civilians, destrcuting infrastructure from hurders of thousands and making the whole land a disperense-mutinion wasteland which will cause civilian damages decades further…
Freedom of Israeli soldiers invading sovreing state is quite high isen’t it?

oooooh scary double standards, becouse only the US and UK suffer from that.:p

I dont need to make excuses, the existence and activities of Hezbollah are reason enough.:mad:

How many Islamic terrorist attacks had been against the U.K before the Iraq war?

Chile was a dictatorship when we supplied them with Hawker Hunters and Canberra PR.9’s – a shinning example of how we turn a blind eye to people ‘disappearing’ under a dictaorship never to be seen again but still support the country.
Supporting whatever regime when it suits .

Israel launched a totally disproportionate attack on the Lebanon . Countless civilian casualties died in a campaign that appears to have achieved nothing.

Once again, try doing some research, there were several attempts to launch terrorist attacks on the UK prior to the invasion of Iraq- just becouse they do not happen is does not mean that people are not trying to carry them out.:rolleyes: Heres a link for you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1766509.stm

The bit about Chile does not even make sense, what are you trying to say that democracy is evil becouse Chile once bought some planes.:rolleyes:

I find it sickening that you condone the terror attacks in the UK yet you expect Israel to just sit back and let Hezbollah bombard the north of the country with rockets, kidnap Israeli soldiers and pursue the destruction of Israel- not realy that disproportionate after all.:rolleyes:

As for the reasonings behind democracy. It’s great to have all these gung- ho view of how democracy is great ahd how we should encourage it. However countries like Saudi Arabia and Chile are not shining examples of democratic states – they did however receive Western weapons because it suits the West’s interests to do so. Likewise the ‘No Fly’ zones over Iraq were supposed to protect the Iraqi Kurds . However RAF Harriers would fly recconnaisance from Turkey over Iraq and then Turkish Phantoms would fly bombing sorties to suppress the Kurds that threatened Turkey’s borders from the same airfield !
The foundations of Islamic terrorism do go back many years before 9/11.
However the views of people like Oliver North went unheeded and the movement was allowed to flourish . The invasion of Iraq was a catalyst for people who felt aggreaved at the U.S influence in the region to fight back. Whether you agree with the invasion or not – it has done tremendous damage to the U.S standing around the world and given the impression of a Christian Crusade in the Middle East.

As for your views J Boyle – appeasement is similar to turning a blind eye.
Pretty much exactly what the U.K and U.S did to the Israeli attack on the Lebanon last year which created a humanitarian disaster.

Sudden change of mind, in your last post the only reason for Islamic terrorism was the invasion of Iraq.:rolleyes:

By the way Chile is a democratic state and can in fact be considered a shining example of how a dictatorship can become a democracy. Please check your facts before you post, it will save you a lot of embaresment.:rolleyes:

Turning a blind eye would have been Israel just allowing Hezbollah to continue bombarding it with rockets, talk about double standards.:rolleyes:

let’s stop laying blame on the victims and start pointing the finger where it ought to be pointed…

the british way of life is not the problem… british foreign policy is not the problem, though it clearly is wrong in some cases… the problem is the people who commit these acts…

look there are a lot of people all over the world who don’t agree with what the west does… some are directly affected by it in much worse ways then the guys you see blowing themselves up in the UK these days… but you don’t see attacks by their groups…

the problem is not external, but internal… these guys clearly have something wrong with them and i think there is not enough proactive action by the communities to which they belong to curb these tendencies… sure there maybe problems like racism, but you know what, there’s racism everywhere… no reason why it should be a get out of jail free card… and before anyone starts thinking this is a rant against muslim communities, i will say the same applies to the communities in n. ireland, the likes of the BNP and basically extremism everywhere…

as an indian who has lived most his life in the u.s. and more or less sees himself to be an american first (even though i don’t agree with many things the u.s. does) i think the key is to stop the ghetto mentality… i don’t know what the case is in the UK, but here communities blend and mix (well atleast my family has, they are still traditional socially, but have come to respect and admire the governance of the country)… communities in britian have to open up to each other… and minority communities who don’t agree with certain aspects of british life, still have to do their part as citizens to adhere to the institutions of governance… likewise the government can’t let pressure deteriorate and rot it’s power base… this means no caving into changing education policies because someone might get offended… the goal of education is to teach the truth, not to cater to every sensitivity in those who are taught…

because of the actions of these few individuals, the entire community suffers… the communities themselves have to start understanding this and take some real concrete steps to distance themselves from these ideologies… it is not enough to say oh this is terrible, this is wrong after the fact… they have to make renunciations globally… it is not enough to speak against terrorism in the UK and then to be for it in areas like israel (even though israel is clearly wrong with it’s conduct with palestinians)… that’s giving and escape passage to individuals… they need to close this down… also, too many times i’ve seen interviews with these imans fresh off the plane saying things like, my muslim brother is more important than anyone else… and it’s even a bigger problem when the leader of the so called moderates claims it is alright for the likes of the aytollah’s in iran to call for a fatwa against salman rushdie, maybe we should think twice about just how moderate these moderate… it’s time for the government to start telling them well, no, that’s not how it works here… it’s time for the communities to start telling them, no, that’s not the type of person we want leading our community…

words no longer mean enough… both sides (including white britain) need to start acting to stop this from going on…

Perfectly put, thankyou for your contribution.:)

As a practicing CHRISTIAN in a Christian country I feel really offended by your post………….why should I accept Sharia Law from a foreign religion:mad: If I go to foreign lands in my travels I have to conform to the local laws and regulations. This should be reciprocated here in the UK and enforced not just to let them get on with honour killings etc and getting away with it!!

Or are you just trolling to get a reaction??

A225HVY

He was being sarcastic.

To directly equate freedom and democracy ie ‘Democracy = Freedom’ is foolish.

Only this weekend we have seen in England a ban on smoking in enclossed public places introduced, which many here in the UK (a democracy) see as severely limiting their personal freedom. Such a limitation of freedom is now common in many western democracies.

It is also of course worth noting that Adolf Hitler was democratically elected, surely an example of democracy destroying freedom rather than reinforcing it.

Or that (I believe it was) George Orwell who once observed that True Communisum and True Democracy would be indistinguishable.

In the light of the above it is clear that Freedom IS NOT the same thing as Democracy, although the two concepts often have a close interelationship.

Steve.

Adolf Hitler destroyed democracy.:rolleyes: The smoking ban was passed by a democratically elected parliament, part of living in a democracy is accepting that you dont always get your way so get used to it.:rolleyes:
According to David Burke the smokers of the UK should start murdering innocent men women and children in order to get their point across.:mad:

Sealord – Exactly how many Islamic terrorist attacks had we suffered in the U.K before the Iraqi invasion ? A great many people in this country objected to the invasion – whether you agree with it or not not everyone feels that the ballot box is effective. Couple this with the coverage of Guantanamo Bay
and Abu Graib where clearly people and their faiths were abused and you can clearly see why young impressionable people would get radicalised.
I think your being very naieve in suggesting that everyone feels that democracy is their only voice – we indirectly supported the terrorist/freedom fighters activities in Afghanistan under the Russian regime . Now we are getting the same treatment and it’s hardly supprising that Islamic youth feel they need to support them .
Keep living your Western utopia dream as long as you can!

Democracy= Freedom, thus democracy that is how you make your protest against government policy. What you are doing is validating the mass murder of innocent men women and children and that is disgusting.:mad:

You may have forgotten but Afghanistan was not a democracy under when the west was supporting the ‘freedom fighters’.:rolleyes:

If you realy think that there were no attempts by Muslims to launch terrorist attacks on the UK prior to the invasion of Iraq then you are uninformed to the point of ignorance.:mad:

You mean the western dream where women and homosexuals are free, where there is freedom of speech, where 16 year old girls are not executed for being abused by their fathers, where we are not rounded up and slaughtered for coming from the wrong race- becouse that seems to be where we are right now.:rolleyes:

The bottom line is that you support the murder of innocent people in order to create your fantasy Islamic state.:mad: