What happens in an illegal sense cannot be compared to what happens in a legal sense. Crime is crime and the criminals will always indulge in illegal activity, as is their want.

I am talking about negating the risk of another Dunblane or Hungerford happening again by reducing the risk, i.e reducing the availability of hand-guns, which after much debate our goverment decided that there was no real reason for legally owning one in the UK.

Accuse me of having mis-placed emotions if you like, accuse the parents of the children massacred by Thomas Hamilton in primary school gym session of that too if you dare.

I do dare. The handgun ban the UK was one of the most irrational pieces of legislation ever passed. There was very little debate as it was put through on a tide of emotional anguish. You might want to ask the British olympic pistol shooting team.:mad:

You have still yet to explain how the hand-gun ban has worked, the number of handguns in the UK are increasing which means that availability is increasing.

Do you honestly think that if Thomas Hamilton had not had handgus legally he would just have said ‘oh well never mind I wont bother killing people after all.’ Fact is that gun control does not work and that has been proved in this thread.

Do you seriously think that your average criminal is going to say ‘hmmmmm that guy looks a bit dodgy I wont sell him a gun.’

Sealord,

As your clearly haven’t read my posts or don’t understand the meaning of words such as ‘constrain,’ there is absoloutely no point in discussing this subject with you, as you obviously are not capable of understanding the issues.

Steve.

Hahahahaha. Your funny. You turn up here and make some general statement with no supporting evidence, get proved wrong then have a tantrum.:p

How exactly do you conduct a survey that tells you illegal gun ownership is on the increase ?

“Excuse me sir, do you have double glazing, and er… do you keep an illegal firearm about your person..?”:D

Has there been a ‘Tesco like’ expansion in illegal gun shops that I’ve missed or something ?

How about the number of guns being confiscated by police, or the number of gun related crimes.:rolleyes:

For instance a home office report which states on the first page that the number of gun related crimes in England and Wales have doubled since the mid- late 90s.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/r279.pdf

And this one is truly worrying, upto 4 million illegal firearms in the UK!

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article310182.ece

So maybe you could explain how gun control reduces availbility?:rolleyes:

Sorry, but you are still not explaining how if the banning firearms reduces their availability, the availability of illegal firearms is increasing in the UK?:rolleyes:

Knowone disputes that a degree of gun control is required. A licensing system for instance. However blanket banning a paticular firearm is just a pointless knee-jerk reaction.

Of course it does !!! It does not guarantee their unavailabilty but in this country it has cut them down.

I understand this thread is about gun control, not a celebration of guns ! Quite clearly Sealordlawrence our opinions differ on the matter and every other matter that you bring your somewhat ‘gung-ho’ opinons to.;)

As far as I’m concerned there are big, big differences between the actions of a single young man in America, on a college campus acting out a recurring theme with a gun, than the politically/religious motivated terrorist actions of a collabarative group of determined and shall we agree ‘misguided’ indivduals ?

Have your guns if you wish, if indeed you insist that it’s ok to go hunting/fishing/shooting with them and that’s all that will happen ? I will always subscribe to the notion that I’d rather see no guns or gun sport at all, than see a line up of dead children on a school gymnasium floor ! 🙁

So how come you and Gollevaian can not explain why the availability of illegal handguns is increasing despite them being illegal.

Clearly facts mean nothing to you and your opinion is based on nothing more than your mis-placed emotions.

Nope but nor do I think your average drug dealer is going to walk into a school or university and commit a massacre.

We’re talking about the difference between criminals with illegally held firearms and ordinary people who blow a fuse and commit atrocities such as these with LEGALLY HELD FIREARMS.

As ever the pro-lobby have their heads in the sand about why the general availability of guns may not actually be a good idea.

I think you mean that as usual the anti-gun lobby have their heads up their backsides in an emotionally charged and irrational rant.:mad:

As has already been shown, the illegality of guns does not reduce their availability and it does not reduce the capacity of civilians to kill on a massive scale if they so desire. Oklahoma has already been mentioned- does 7/7 ring any bells?:rolleyes:

No one disputes the rise in gun crime within the UK; however the question needing to be asked is; if firearms weren’t largely illegal, in this country, how quickly would gun crime be rising?

I strongly suspect such offences would be increasing much faster than they are today – and hey who knows SealordLawerence might be their next innocent victim!

It is of course also worth noting that very few people in the UK need to posses a firearm – a few farmers and gamekeepers, and even then mainly shotguns.

Steve.

Proof, evidence? Thought not.

I dont think you need a car, they kill far more people than guns.:rolleyes:

The point the UK proves is that gun crime is largely associated with the illegal posession of firearms and other illegal activities, notably drug dealing.

You also raise another important issue, your ignorance at the use of firearms. They hold significant recreational value both sporting and hunting.
Why do game keepers need guns? becouse they keep game, why do they do that? becouse people like to shoot game birds, do they need to? No, they do it becouse they enjoy it.

Mowj:

No apparent SAM but CIWS in front of mast looks like a Phalanx copy. :confused:

I suspect that the item in between the Bridge and the 76mm might be a launcher for MANPAD’s. As for the Phalanx copy- to the best of my knowledge Iran never recieved Phalanx so I have no idea where they would have got one from, and I doubt that they have the knowhow to design one from scratch.

On a side note, this thing looks rather top heavy, it might not be but all the weapons seem to be mounted quite high up on the super-sructure.