Chinese fleet list.

Chinese Fleet list (limited to modern combatants)

I will only count vessels with both anti-air and anti-ship missiles, with the exception of submarines and FACs, of these I will only list latest acquisitions (Thus I am excluding vast numbers of older boats).

Destroyers. (A number of vessels that are regarded as destroyers by the Chinese and by a number of sources I personally regard as frigates due to their capability and are thus listed in that category)

Sovremenny = 136,137 + 138, 139 (under construction in Russia)

052B = 168, 169 (appear to be in service)

052C = 170, 171 (appear to be either in service or very close to)- neither SAMs or SSMs seen working yet.

051C = 115, 116? (currently under construction at Dalian)

Total = 10

Frigates

054 = 525, 526

Luhai (051B) = 167

Luhu (052) = 112, 113

Luda 3 (051G) = 108, 109, 166, 110, 165,

Jiangwei (053H2G) = 539, 540, 541, 542

Jiangwei 2 (053H3) = 521, 522, 523, 524, 564, 565, 566, 567, 527, 528

Total = 24

Submarines

094 (SSBN) = 1 unit in the water, possibly on sea trials, very little known.

093 (SSN) = 1 or 2 units either under construction or in the water, very little known.

092 (SSBN) = 1 unit, old but active.

091 (SSN) = 5 units built, no detail on number active but probably 2 or more.

Kilo (SSK) = 364, 365, 366, 367, in service. A further 8 units being built in Russia.

039 (Song class, SSK) = 320, 321, 322, 323, 324 in the water or in service. At least another two units under construction possibly more planned, seems to be almost masse production.

Yuan (SSK) = 1 possibly 2 units. At least 1 is in the water and on sea trials, very little known.

Total = ??

FAC’s

2208 type = 2208, 2209, 2210, 2211 in the water. Either in service or soon will be.

Total = 4

I got bored recently and produced the above, I hope that it is informative and welcome any corrections, comments or addtions :confused: .
What is apparent is that even when not counting the older less capable ships, the PLAN is sill a very potent force, probably only the USN and JMSDF are larger in terms of numbers. After the JMSDF the PLAN is probably the second most capable navy in asia or east of suez.
Despite claims by many that the PLAN is currently focusing on submarines it seems that the building programme is actually fairly balanced between surface ships and submarines.
My thanks to siondefence.com and the people at the CDF.

Yes becouse the people of the US are just as poor as those in India. :rolleyes:

The history is irrelevant, it is choice of the current native population.
You avoided my question very nicely jester, but the fact remains that the Falklands are the home of those who currently live there, thus they and they alone should choose its future do you or do you not agree with that?

Does anybody Know how many J10s there are now??? even a rough guess???

Or at least Elta is hoping that it is going to India and is pushing very hard. I would certainly like to see it there.

Cheers Nic great photos, but what cell phone have you got???!!!???
From those pictures it looks like the Rafale is turning in to one mean air to ground plane aswell as a great fighter, and it is so gorgeous, I just wish Britain could produce something like that.

Whether in the past these people were colonists or not is irrelevant jester, they are now effectively the native population and it is their views and theirs alone that should be considered.
Argentina on the other hand deserves the way it has been treated since 1982, personally I would say much worse.
You can rant and rave about a colony and occupation as long as you like, nothing would be more disgusting and vile than handing the falklands to argentina without the majority support of the people of the falklands.
Under you view everybody in the US should leave and the continent be handed back to the indians, your perspective is absurd.
I can not believe how little respect you have for the ideas of democracy and self-determination, you disgust me.
My Hitler comment was a reference to your seeming believe that Argentina should have the falklands simply becouse it believes it should have them and for no other reason.
This is not a debate about colonialism or about the treatment of Argentina but about the rights of individuals something you have very little respect for.

I ask you a simple question, do you believe that the people of the falklands should have the right to decide democratically who governs them? yes or no please.

Ink, you presented some good points, and I will say that my belief is that democracy and equality is the way to look at this subject.
What I was trying to say to you Jester is this, It is very simple, the correct way of looking at this could be understood by anyone.
The people who currently inhabit the Falkland Islands have been there for generations, thus we can safely regard them as the native population, thus who they wish to be ruled by should be their choice. The people of Argentina are not the inhabitants of the Falklands and thus their thoughts on the matter are largely irrelevant-just becouse they want the Falklands it does not mean they should have them. On the other hand if the populous of the falklands elected in a free and fair referendum to transfer to Argentina then so be it, it is their choice and knowone should protest. BUT this is highly unlikely in the near to medium term. I personally feel that the history of the Islands is only relevant in the sense that it provides the candidates not the rights. Other examples from recent history of other similar cases should also be considered irrelevant.
You jester on the other hand, seem to believe that it is the right of Argentina, despite the fact that it has not owned the Islands for 200 years, that the inhabitants do not wish to be Argentine and have lived there for generations, should be returned to the Agentinians immediately, this is wrong and immoral. If this is truly what you believe then everybody on this forum is disgusted.
The idea that the Kelpers do not have the right to self-determination is equally repugnant, every human being should as far as possible have the right to choose democratically who governs them, Thus far the Kelpers have chosen Britain and so be it.

I say again, just becouse the nationalist side of you jester says that your country should own the falklands it does not mean that is how it should be. I trust that you are now going to enter the modern world and except that the kelpers should decide who governs them not argentina.