sealordlawrenceI wonder if they’re going to forward mount the weapons or not. There doesn’t seem to be much room forward of the wheelhouse to mount one (especially with 120mm ammuntion). Maybe that’s what the hull stretch is for on the later ones? If they used much of the free space up front then that would eliminate the ramp up front (or at least access to it). That would make it more difficult for embarked troops to get out quickly.
Logan Hartke
I suspect the mortar will be aft mounted like the Amos installed on a Combat Boat 90.
sealordlawrenceThe 27mm is indeed the MLG27, to the best of my knowledge it is an either or thing, so the boats getting the Nemo will not get the cannon. As I understand it the hull stretch will not be retroactive. My source was the Jane’s reporting from Idex. I am not aware of any pictures of the new boats being about. What I am really interested in is whether there will be any modifications (RCS related perhaps?) to the wheelhouse/superstructure.
Like you I find the UAE navy fascinating, as I try to point out on here frequently all navies are different and formed by the circumstances around them and the UAE is one of the more extreme cases of this around today. They have moved beyond the standard procurement of FAC’s usually associated with fleets of their size and are acquiring a highly specialised force based around their exact circumstances.
sealordlawrenceSpeed, warhead, range. Lots of each. Big difference.
That’s pure ignorance if anything.
Not really, range is of questionable use without the ability to locate the target in the first place, 200kg (or even less with some of the modern warheads) is perfectly adequate for mission kill and flying fast but higher is only an alternative and not a superior option to flying lower but smarter.
Some of the capabilities, such as re-attack and waypoint flying demonstrated by the likes of the Rbs-15 Mk3 are genuinely useful.
sealordlawrenceThe differences (advantages) in the CIWS might be minute, I’ll give you that much.
But there’s no way you can win any argument with Yakhont vs Exocet non-sense, badly defended RN destroyers aside 😉
All Yakhont has going for it is speed, and frankly so what. Rbs-15 Mk3 and the latest Otomat variants are more than adequate AShM’s.
And ‘badly defended RN destroyers’ is a particuarly ignorant statement.
sealordlawrenceAnd could easily have been released – cut the trace, or cut the hook.
There’s no honour in bashing an animal over the head once its been vanquished.
Unless you intend to consume it.;)
sealordlawrenceAnd could easily have been released – cut the trace, or cut the hook.
There’s no honour in bashing an animal over the head once its been vanquished.
Unless you intend to consume it.;)
sealordlawrenceFor once we are singing from the same hymn sheet. As a parallell example of unpreparedness, in the summer of 1939 major units of the German Kriegsmarine (including Scharnhorst) were excercising in the North Atlantic just weeks before the invasion of Poland without any live ammunition aboard, as no war (certainly against Britain and France) was expected for years let alone months or weeks. The Argentine Navy was one of the original instigators of the Falklands invasion, but it is clear they hadn’t though it through very far. But then the Argentine Junta had been very inward looking during the previous decade of oppression against their own people, and their inability to grasp the British reaction to the invasion probaby stems from this mind set. It’s one thing to impose your will on defenceless civilians (both the Argentine population and the Falklands Islanders), and quite another to impose your will on a sovreign government which cannnot possibly survive such a loss of face.
Indeed, it is however worth mentioning that at least the Kreigsmarine could function without UK industry!
sealordlawrenceThey are going to use Nemo, not AMOS. Furthermore the units getting the mortar will be reconstructed existing hulls. Those hulls not getting the mortar will get a 27mm cannon.
The patrol vessels, as yet there is no image and beyond the missiles all we know is that they will get a hull stretch and more powerful engines. I suspect that they are intended as close escort for the older units rather than as patrol vessels in the coastguard sense.
All in all the UAE is developing a very powerful littoral force, assuming its sailors are well conditioned and trained.
In short the UAE will have 6 transport boats with 27mm cannon, six with single barrelled 120mm mortars and twelve fitted out as fast attack craft and one assumes also with transport capability, this in addition to the six corvettes they are acquiring and one assumes the rentention of at least some of the FAC force.
sealordlawrenceArgentina was certainly spreading the load around when buying ships and other equipment. Had they shown more foresight they could have stockpiled engines and parts for their ships against any possible embargo. But certainly they were not buying further type 42s or any type 22s for their fleet in the late 70s early 80s, and were looking elsewhere for fleet units. Had they seriously believed there would be war/embargo etc they could have specified different engines for the new fleet units, though the next obvious choice would be American GTs, though these would also be potential embargo candidates too. Implications and consequences don’t appear to be high on the list as regards the ARA in this period.
Which is precisely my original point, this was not a preconcieved master plan but the desperate last stand of a faltering Junta whose actions the UK government of the time can not be entirely blamed for mis-calculating.
That aside, the UK still won the Falklands war by a country mile and the only arm of the Argetine armed forces to show any particular prowess was the air arm and even they took heavy losses.
In the long term the conflict has had two very positive consequences for the UK. Argentina is now well aware that no UK government could sacrifice an inch of the Islands and survive and would be forced to launch a massive retalitory action to any Argentine action and the Argetine economy and military has never (and shows no sign of doing so in the future) recovered from the longer term consequences of the action leaving them unable to act even if they wanted to.
sealordlawrenceThe Argentine Navy in 1982 had two British Type 42 DDGs, but had, since their purchase switched to the Germans to suppy four MEKO360 frigates (destroyers in ARA service) and six MEKO140 corvettes (frigates in the ARA). Add in the three french ‘A69’ type corvettes and the British contribution to the ARA becomes quite minor. Although, to be fair most of these ships used RR GTs to power them, all the same Britain was in no way the main or even majority supplier to Argentina.
You mean except for the fact that all their planned major surface units were reliant on British propulsion systems (the things that make them move) and the sole carrer used British catapults and combat management system. Take that away and you are left with nothing more than a few corvettes and SSK’s. Waging a naval war against the country that supplies the key components to all the most useful surface units in your navy is just plain stupid. The loss of the RR components and other British systems would remove all 6 ships that Argetina now describes as destroyers and the only aircraft carrier. In hind sight it would have made little difference, with the sinking of Blegrano all the RN had to do was stay there, with the Argetine Navy confining itself to port the war was Britains to lose.
sealordlawrenceYeah those two should be banned from this thread all togehter.
So should you.
sealordlawrenceA google books search on “”type-985″ radar” brings up The Royal Navy, 1930-2000 By Richard Harding. There’s a section on the Royal Navy’s electronics by Norman Friedman that has a bit on the Type 985. You can read a bit about it on pages 260-261 online, but the only other page in the book with 985 info, page 256, is not available online.
Thanks, Starviking, I shall have to have a hunt and see if I can get my grubby hands on a copy!
sealordlawrenceI can see the Hawkeyes being useful but I’m not sure sending a supercarrier full fast jets is the best way of dealing with the problem. What are they going to do against pirates in speed boats? drop a couple of JDAMs on them? Launch a harpoon?
This is just journalistic sensationalism, the carrier is not being sent to fight pirates it is just replacing the current carrier group in the region.
sealordlawrenceI own the book, but sadly it resides halfway around the world from me now. Been a long time since I saw it – but from what I can remember the info on the pre CVA-01 studies consists of tabular data and text – no new pics beyond the standard CVA-01 ones as far as I remember.
Brown and Moore’s Rebuilding the Royal Navy covers the carriers well – but no Type-985 info sadly beyond a brief reference note.
That is exactly the problem that I have had, I have managed to find a copy in a local library and will be taking a visit this weekend. Unfortunately the Type 985 seems to have fallen through the cracks of history.
sealordlawrenceThree Russian Northern Fleet ships return to home port
MURMANSK, February 25 (RIA Novosti) – The Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier, the Admiral Chabanenko destroyer and the Nikolai Chiker salvage tug are returning to their home port after a tour of duty in the North Atlantic and the Mediterranean, a spokesman for the Russian Northern Fleet said on Wednesday.
Capt. 1st Rank Igor Babenko said the warships are expected to return to Severomorsk, the main base of the Northern Fleet, “in late February or early March.”
He said the vessels had already passed the northern coast of Norway escorted by a Norwegian coast guard vessel and a P-3 Orion aircraft.
Russia announced last year that its Navy had resumed, and would continue to build up, a constant presence throughout the world.
Very successful cruise for the Kuznetzov, she only managed to kill one of her crew member and leave one oil slick in the North Atlantic.:mad:
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