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sealordlawrence

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  • in reply to: Russian Navy News & Discussion Thread Part II #2041538
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    Compared to the Exocet and Harpoon, the Yakhont is about twice the weapon. You are not going to kill anything significant with a small, sub-sonic missile.

    Funny, such missile have destroyed more than of the heavy Russian AShM’s, Royal Navy destroyers come to mind.

    Kashtan’s integrated system also allows for more rapid and ensured destruction of incoming cruise missiles.

    Could you be any more generic? The systems huge footprint and yet non distributed nature make it inefficient for ship design and it offers nothing that a combination of western gun and missile based CIWS do not.

    in reply to: Russian Navy News & Discussion Thread Part II #2041549
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    No ship of that displacement will have anything even close to the punch of SS-N-26s or Kashtans. Not even close. The Uragan is a toss up, but since it’s no cruiser or destroyer, it suffices.

    Nothing special about Yakhont or Kashtan.

    in reply to: EMALS – oops? #2041720
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    The minimum cost increase to redesign the Ford because of this being thrown around… mind you… minimum.

    Is $600 million. It could be more or less if the CVN is delayed and not redesigned for steam, depending on how long it takes to fix.

    We can go back to fussing over nothing now.

    Source?

    in reply to: Russian Navy News & Discussion Thread Part II #2041767
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    These are budget ships.

    Admiral Sergei Gorshkov class frigates will be of much higher level.

    With Yakhont battery, Kashtan and Uragan, they will be far better armed than any Frigate in service.

    No they wont.

    in reply to: Russian Navy News & Discussion Thread Part II #2041790
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8752/yaroslavfu5.jpg

    Yaroslav Mudry (Neustrashimy class frigate) seems to be nearing service!

    http://vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/files/Ajax/(090207181252)_Mudruy.jpg

    Sea Trials about to begin, the completion of this unit should allow the shipyard to focus on the thrid of class Tuman and I expect a reasonably fast turn around on that vessel. The RuN is in desperate need of these vessels as any analysis of the very small number of Russian ships that make it onto long range cruises shows you. I just hope they can raise a proficient crew for them.

    http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090224/120272685.html

    A comparison with the frigates that European yards have been producing since the Russian/Soviet collapse soons shows the age of this class. Jus think in the same timeframe we have had the Type 23 (CODLAG propulsion), Lafayette and derivatives (highly stealthy and Aster/AESA equipped), Nansen (Low RCS + mini Aegis) and that is without even going into the destroyer end of the market with the exceptional Dutch LCF, German F125, Franco-Italian Horizon and the cream of the crop the Type 45.

    in reply to: HMS Victorious #2041841
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    Beyond shipbucket and other published sources, not a lot I’m afraid. In the timescale if she had been built I believe she would have resembled an enlarged Victorious as both were the products of the same technology, though this impression from the aforementioned shipbucket site gives a possible view of the finished ship:

    Does anybody have access to a copy of Norman Friedmans ‘British Carrier Aviation: The Evolution of the Ships and Their Aircraft’

    It would probably be the best source of information for the 1952 carrier but my particular interest is for the pre CVA-01 studies. Some of those designs used the mysterious Type-985 electronically scanned radar and I would love to here a description or see a picture of the layout for that system.

    in reply to: It was 30 years ago today #2041847
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    Until it’s reached saturation, then it’s stuffed, even moreso now that all ships are back to thin skins

    So now we have failed states able to saturate a modern high end warship do we?:rolleyes:

    in reply to: EMALS – oops? #2041850
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    while it might not technically have been ‘laid down’, steel has been cut, construction has begun, orders have been placed and contracts have been signed

    a redesign of this magnitude would be HUGE, at least a 2 year delay and all the costs that entails

    for an already expensive program, yes it would be ‘the end of the world’

    No it would not, the carrier is six years from delivery.

    in reply to: EMALS – oops? #2041909
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    interesting article about the possible failure of EMALS and what it would mean

    http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2009/02/and-now-for-really-bad-news.html

    a response:
    http://blog.usni.org/?p=1460

    and finally, another apparent confirmation in the comments

    if EMALS completely bombs, well, I don’t know

    ‘heads will roll’ is an understatement

    Whilst the failure of EMALS would be less than surprising and the decision to start constructing a ship to use it prior to its successful development is of the same level of intelligence that has put the USN shipbuilding programme in its current crisis this is not the great apocalypse it is being made out to be if timely and sensible action is taken (something that may be asking just too much). The first ship to be built for this system has yet to be laid down and it should be more than possible to adapt the design to take steam catapults at this stage. Inconvenient, embarrassing and indicative of the USN shipbuilding shambles it most certainly is, but it is not the end of the world.

    in reply to: HMS Victorious #2041950
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    Fascinating pictures Obi, one can see how cramped the deck was getting as aircraft got bigger.

    in reply to: It was 30 years ago today #2042043
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    was not aware that you average failed state has access to a powerful AShM launching airforce?

    Expect the unexpected?

    Just how many aircraft with anti ship missiles would they need to cause a problem? There are lots of anti ship missiles being sold all over the world, and being integrated on various aircraft – including helicopters and maritime patrol aircraft. A few MiGs with Kryptons would be a very serious threat to any naval force, particularly one lacking fighter cover.

    The ‘expect the unexpected’ and ‘prepare for everything’ etc lines get peddled here with mind numbing frequency. There end result if followed through to their natural conclusion is something not dissimilar to North Korea today or Stalin’s Russia post WW2.

    A well designed and equipped modern AAW warshi should be more than capable of defending itself against most air/missile based threat scenarios.

    in reply to: Post DDG-51 tribulations. #2044234
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    In fact, the County class was the UK’s first DDG (DLG actually). And only the UK’s second post-war destroyer class (the first being the 3800 ton Daring class, which has no missiles at all). Beyond it, there is the single 6,000 tons Type 82 guided missile destroyer Bristol, beyond which comes the 4,350 – 5,350 tons full load Type 42 Sheffield class DDG.

    County class used GWS-1 Sea Slug , the RN’s first and only AAD guided SAM until the advent of GWS-30 Sea Dart in the 1970s. (not counting the short range Sea Cat of the 1960s, which was replaced by the short range Sea Wolf)

    Bainbridge, Long Beach and Enterprise:

    I think you will find all those ships built as destroyers during world war 2 were in fact destroyers.;)

    in reply to: Post DDG-51 tribulations. #2044464
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    I’m willing to accept that. Still, it would be ‘nice’ if someone could then explain in lay-mans terms what the distinguishing form features of a cruiser hull are exactly (or point to an explanation there of). Of course, this also raises the question of what other postwar cruisers aren’t ‘really’ cruisers (e.g. ships in French, UK, Russian and Italian navies). Cruisers historically are not a type of ship but a role for a warship role: cruisers were ships which were assigned a role largely independent from the fleet, irrespective of their size. Perhaps it should be acknowledged also that the US used rather unique ( if not “odd”) ship type naming conventions in the early post WW2 period (like: guided‑missile frigate Bainbridge DLG(N)-25 < when’s the last time you saw an 8000+ ton nuclear powered frigate?)

    There is nothing odd about that designation at all in the post war environment. Frigate/Destroyer designs grew massively in a very short space of time. The RN county class for instance were well beyond any DDG built to date for that service yet were still built to destroyer standards. In the case of the USN, and elsewhere, the later ships used used enlarged frigate style hulls (see the picture linked on the first page for the difference in hull form) and i am told to a lower structural standard in order to save money. I believe it was the right approach and one that the USN is correctly still pursuing today, it gives them numbers of well balanced ships over a small fleet of highly expensive vessels.

    I would argue that the only oddity was the decision to re-designate the nuclear powered ships as cruisers (Ticos too) and a look at the timeline tells us that this only seems to happen when planned cruiser designs become un-viable on cost grounds.

    in reply to: Post DDG-51 tribulations. #2044477
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    1. What exactly constitutes a true cruiser hull?
    2. What exactly are CGN-38 (Virginia class, 11,300 tons 4 ships), CGN-36 (California class, 10,500 tons, 2 ships), CGN-35 (Truxton class, 9150 tons, 1 ship), CG-26 (Belknap class, 8100 tons, 9 ships ), CGN-25 (Bainbridge class, 9250 tons, 1 ship), CG-16 (Leahy class, 7800tons, 9 ships) if not cruisers?

    I’m willing to state that:
    1. the difference between CG-47 (Ticonderoga class, 9600 tons) and DDG-993 (Kidd class, 9500 tons) and DD-963 (Spruance class 9200 tons) is somewhat arbitrary, as it is basically the same hull.
    2. most post WW2 US cruisers are equal in size and armaments to current US destroyers (i.e. around 9000-10000 tons).
    3. at 17,500 tons, Long Beach is substantially larger than other non-conversion, post-war cruisers (which are 8,000-12,000 tons)

    Are Spruance/Kidd not really cruisers, particularly considering these postwar guided missile destroyers (not even going into postwar destoyers like Forrest Sherman, Barry classes):
    5,800 tons (Farragut class DDG-37. 1960)
    4,500 tons (Charles F. Adams class, DDG 2, 1960)
    4,855 tons (Mitscher class DDG-35, 1953)
    4,150 tons (Decatur class DDG 31, 1956)?

    Note that today in Europe we have only very recently started calling 5000-6000 tons ships ‘frigates’ (mainly because it look less agressive on the gov’t budget).

    A hull design is more than just displacement, it is hull form that counts.

    in reply to: Post DDG-51 tribulations. #2044699
    sealordlawrence
    Participant

    LCS is big enough they could use THAT hull for a new frigiate. Hell, NG already has a version of theirs (in concept anyway) that would fit the bill just fine.

    They dont need a Frigate if they just build more Burkes, that are already more than adequate. Part of the LCS problem is that its role is too specifically defined.

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 5,730 total)