True. Except that with those attacks you achieve nothing, only encourage local population to vote for even more stupid and radical leader having the anti-US bashing as its main agenda.

If you want to bash the US knock yourself out, after all its a human right. However if Chavez wants to attack Columbia (and lets be honest neither regime is perfect) then I would suggest that taking a few more insults for the benefit of preventing such an attack and destroying the largest part of the conventional combat capability of the Venzuelan armed forces would be worth it.

Russia has clear lead in SSK/SSN/SSBN and associated missle system in all aspects. as well as Naval Aviation.
you are not going to see bigger boats in Ru Navy becasue they are developing completely new generation power plants independent of Ukriane prduction.
and where is invention comes from?

You cant keep a bad racist down.:mad:

In the terms of shiphulls alone, none could dispute the fact that Chinese indeed are building alot more and in far faster rate than Russians.

But wheter they (chinese) are building better or more sofisticated vessels, well that is incorrect or at least highly disputable.

Chinese major surface combatants that were build after soviet union’s breakdown pretty much covers all the relatively modern chinese hulls. These are the 052 Luhu class (2 units), 051B Luhai class (1 hull), 052B class(2 hulls), 052C (2 hulls) class, 051C class (2 hulls), 054 class (2 hulls) and the 054A class (apparently 4 hulls). One could add the Jiangwei-II class (8 hulls) to it as well.

That makes 15 or 23 hulls compared to the russian post-92 laid down hulls of…??….2? (how many pr. 20380 have been laid down?)

Now add to that the chinese have laid down 2 Luda and at least 6 Jianghu class after 1992 which both classess presents technology of the late 40’s (updated systems ofcourse, but the hull design and machinery is nevertheless the orginal). Also basicly all of the relatively modern designs laid down after 92 have somewhat similar proplems. The chinese shipbuilding and warship designing has envolved and matured alongside with these various shipdesigns, but unfortunetly it has a downside of that the designs, exspecially in the early stage (Luhu & Luhai for instance) are only relatively modern. The have elements which are/were almoust state-of-the art back when they were designed but lacked considerably in some other areas. No way can they be called fully comparable to counterpory designs offboard. This is repeated with the later designs as well. Altough for instance 052C have its airdefence suite quite impressive and at least in theory at the same level as the best systems abroad, still have issues which aren’t exactlty satisfied in modern standarts.

Main weakness is in the ASW suites. The best that chinese have for example in sonarfits in their very latest systems is basicly the French DUBV-23 and Soviet MGK-335 Platina or their local copies. Those systems however weren’t the best systems that the orginal countries had even in the late 80’s! As the russian navy is in question in here, the Polimon and Zvezda suites were superior/were about to surpass the Platina in service. The cap in the actual ASW armament is even larger.

Now the fact however is that Soviet union ceded to exist in 1991. This means that the russian naval technology is unfortunately left (if you consider those ships/systems in service) to the 90’s era and due limited funding is not being modernised/updated very actively. This however has nothing to do with the technology and capacity itself, but is so due other far larger reasons. Chinese however have only started their naval build-up to the large player standarts after the soviet union ended to exist. Basicly they started their competition after the “rival” was forced to whitdraw from the race. Still chinese have only started to reach the level that soviets had in their final days in some areas, still lacking far behind in others. Also if you take under consideration all the systems, equipments, armaments and shipdesigns that were under development or in the design board (and which some have been continued trough out the new russian era) when the soviet union collapsed, the level in sophistication is miles ahead of what china has now.

But it remains to seen wheter the russia will start up new equally extensive weaponmodernisation than china currently goes trough. If it does (which I however somewhat doupt) then the lead that china is now just about to aquire would propaply be eaten very fast, so huge is the “base” for russia where to push compared the one that china has due its decades of neglect in tehcnology.

…as if this anyhow has anything to do with comparing New Conte and old Gorgy…

All true. However the only destroyers that Russia has laid ddown in the last decade+ have been for export to China.

Hmmm it is so difficult to get a clear picture with the leap in Chinese development. Arguably in some areas the newest build ships like the 052C are as good or even better then Russian vessels. What is clear now is that China no longer wants complete hulls out of Russia rather they want technology.

True, but in the case of SSN’s/SSBN’s I would say that there is no doubt that Russia is building better boats. However beyond that it gets confusing. The largest class of major surface combatant that China has laid down in the last few years has consisted of just 4 hulls. My suspicion is that we will continue to see such small production runs until China gets to the technology level they want.

Of course star49 will chime in with his racist ‘asians cant invent thngs’ BS now.:mad:

Is that why you have been reworking the Varyag at Dalian for past four years? You are getting beyond boring with your bias, get a life..

In fairness he has a point, the PLAN is procuring ships at a faster rate than the Russian Navy. In most cases they are not as good as what Russia is building but the likes of the 052C, 054A and Yuan are probably not far behind.

I will take the carrier building comment with a pinch of salt, that story comes round religiously like the changing of the seasons and we have never (in at least in the 8/9 years that I have been hearing them) seen a Chinese carrier under construction.

The US wont invade Venezuela. I dont why everybody is so obsessed with the idea but it aint going to happen. I Chavez is stupid enough to attack Columbia then he can say goodbye to his shiny new Flankers and most of the rest of his armed forces and probably a large part of his national infrastructure too.

The A330 line is also busy, so Airbus would have had to expand it or open a new line for the KC-45 order even if it didn’t need to build it in the USA for political reasons, & opening that line in the USA fits in perfectly with the Airbus plan to source more from dollar zone countries. Win-win for Airbus: the KC-45 order guarantees work for (& thus finances) the US line Airbus wanted anyway, & because it was a prerequisite for getting the order, the French & German unions can’t kick up a stink. Once you have the line, using it to build the A330 freighter makes perfect sense, to keep the line occupied, & otherwise it’d be a problem finding space for it on the Toulouse assembly line – and Airbus has spread its currency risk nicely, thank you very much. 😀

Exactly, I cant actually think of another procurement deal in recent times that has made so many people so happy on so many levels. Everything you stated, + the economic benefits and the prevention of a LM/Boeing monopoly. The USAAF even gets the best aircraft for job as a bonus.:D

Its just a shame about the pathetic ‘not designed here’ BS.