What’s more curious are the specifications Leninets V004 on the Su-34.
Does anyone have a reliable source on the radar?
Range of the Su-34 is similar, depending which variant of the basic F-15E is chosen. The F-15I has a MTOW of ~42 tons (over 92.000 lb) and the OEW is ~18 tons.
But it is much superior, when compared to the limited Su-24.
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su32/lth/But we keep in mind, that the bigger Su-34 is still at the start of it growth path.
If you think about it, the Su-24M / M2 does just fine for standoff purposes.
The weapons that can be loaded are key.
Actually proving that a source is flawed and not what you say it is is a great way of winning the argument.:rolleyes:
Not to mention the second source you posted uses exactly the same wording as the first, again without direct qoutes, and almost certainly took it from the same place. Unless you can provide a direct qoute from an official we will have to follow the facts. And they are that a Topol-M is approximately 50% taller than a Bulava whilst the Bulava is wider. Furthermore if the Bulava was derived from the Topol-M one would expect the launch program to have been far more successful and speedier than it has been.
Not necessarily, they could have taken the majority of components from Topol-M and essentially resized the “tube” to better fit the Borei Class Subs. This means the failures could be as a result of re-shaping and re-configuring the missile. It’s also a clear the word “derivative” means different things for some people, but there’s no way so many articles are making up stories about how the Bulava is a derivative of the Topol-M, it’s something Masorin said, and quite frankly, he probably knows what’s he’s saying.
Ie, a new tube with a similar or modified motor, similar warheads? similar guidance system, etc.
I’d say that’s enough to be a derivative of something.
I mean just look at the Su-34 an Su-27, new radar, new avionics, new cockpit, yet similar airframe.
Almost like a reverse situation.
Could be but without any prior reports of refits or upgrades, and the fact that the cource mentions both ships that we all know do not posess overlapping SAM systems it may be best to assume that they are just newly delivered missiles rather than a new type. Although in the case of the Sovremenny the 9M317 if it is not already installed. In the case of the Slava there have been reports that a new Osa variant has been trialled and this could have found its way on board but I remain sceptical.
What about the possibility of the naval S-400 on the Slava class?
Similar to the installment on the Pyotr Velikiy, and perhaps now the Nakhimov.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080708/113478677.html
Interesting, new SAMs have been installed on the ships now?
These damn reporters man, all make their stuff look so much more – informative. 😀
Er No, that is not a qoute, just a paraphrase with the bit about a Topol derivative likely added later by the journalist to make the article look more informative.
Good way to jet out of the argument.
So you do not have any sources to post or anything to back up your point of view…………………again?
http://www.1913intel.com/2007/08/28/bulava-missile-not-ready-for-mass-production/
Again, you are a failure.
Yeah, you and Austin better call Masorin up and tell him he’s an idiot.
You dont have them either and until such a time as you can provide the qote you mention Austins’ analysis is far more valuable than yours. Especially given your truly horrendous track record on source analysis.
Personally I think it is obvious that Topol derived technology and maybe even components found their way into Bulava but I have to agree with Austin that it is unlikely that Bulava is Topol derived. Just look at the dimensions of the Topol-M to start with and it is apparent that it would not be suitable for installation on an SSBN. Sure the materials, electronics, and other component technology was probably used but it seems a nonsense to say that one is derived from the other.
You make me laugh. Bickering about how looking at numbers makes you a military tech analyst. When I come across the info I’ll post it. I don’t work here lol… 😀
dionis that is the problem here , if RIA says so it must be true , you need to look into both the system objectively and study it and you will realise that Topol-M and Bulava are two different engineering solution for two different problem designed by the same institute MITT .
I admire MITT to come up with two different drastic solution instead of just making some Topol-M derivative , that was the easy way out but they chose to design from scratch and as you see from Bulava history the ride so far has been bumpy.
You may say they carry the same warhead (type/yeald) but since russia never discloses their warhead Type/Weight/yeald one can make just informed speculation.
Jurnos are jurnos they tend to copy paste the same stuff and then it becomes a gospel truth.
It’s your word against theirs (and frankly, I trust them) – and I’m quite positive if I really tried I could find you an indirect quote from a Russian military staff person on RIA about what I’m saying.
Your analysis is near worthless, especially without knowing anything but basic specs. They could have taken a Topol-M, and stripped it down and used different materials to make it lighter. You don’t have the R&D schedule and outline of these things do you now?
From the side is the RCS for the Su-35 much worse.:eek:
Some great diheral reflectors like this 2 very extreme big 90 ° tailplanes.:rolleyes:
Vast gaps!:dev2:
Yeah, and from the side angle / lower angle, or above, the Raptor becomes invisible and disappears. . . :rolleyes:
So what exactly is the obsession on this forum with frontal or minimal RCS? I definitely missed it, so can I please see the new aerial combat rulebook that says fighters are going to line up perfectly (or near it) head on and engage each other in only this manner.
Also Toan, where the heck are you getting those RCS values?
All the Eurocanards are a match for the latest Su-35. They are designed to be at least its equal. The tiffy will have an edge over it performance wise in the flight regimes that count – especially with its cranking tactics – that is asuming the jet is fully matured.
You are very clearly confusing the Su-35 and the Su-35BM. :rolleyes:
while i am against IRST at bottom nose position,that dont detect very well the higher altituide targets , didnt supertomcat had a pair of 2? and they were paralalel not ofset by some degrees? why was that? 1 for deep scan other for closer ranges?
interesting is how u.s.a.naval forces found it too expencive and cancelled
F-14BM :D,even if it had very good f-22 style radar ,super-cruise,2 seater….
and we yet have money to throw away on su-35bm remake.
this su-35 is biggest b.s. ever from suhoi and airforce.
whats wrong to incorporate irbis radar and other upgrades on existing flanker series made by knaapo and iapo ,then to make all new airframe.
this is another trick to stop of mig-31 modernisation and sqeese them out of every possible project.is there anything in aviation industry today that is not with suhois,exept trainers and ???.jakovlev and MIG had 30% share in pak-fa to see now its pushed out.
The Su-35BM is also intended for export, incase you haven’t noticed. Sukhoi isn’t merely trying to impress the RuAF with the machine, it’s made to make money for the company.
For the RuAF, it represents a training and gap closing tool between the modernized 4th generation fighters and the PAK-FA, as they have said the Su-35BM will be great for showing pilots not only how to fly, but also how to
“be a programmer” using all of the computer equipment onboard the new aircraft.
The MiG-31, even MiG-29 it seems, are going to be getting upgrades anyway. Especially the MiG-31.
Oh yes, the damn war mongering oil stealing Russians.
Wait, Iraq? The US? :rolleyes: