martinezCan someone clearly tell me how people came to the RCS 0.0001 m^2?! F-22 actual RCS is still classified, isn’t it? IIRC ATF requirement was atleast 1/1000 of the F-15 RCS, but don’t know the exact specs. But the actual figures are not known..
Anyway I`m remembering to read an article long time ago a self-criticism from F-22 designers that they were not much satisfied with achieved frontal F-22 RCS values that they were not as expected, and not even meeting those ATF requirements. Anybody heard of this or read the same article?
Hmmm, that would mean the F-22 frontal RCS is not even 1/1000th of F-15(cca. 10m2), which is more than >0.01m2.
But I tell you that if we fake another US Airforce statement claiming the F-22 RCS to be a size of a sand grain which is appox. 0.0000001m2, some Raptor fans would immediatelly spread this claim all over other forums. 🙂
martinezexcept that it’s probably more like <0.0001 m^2.
Always when I see this figure I have the same thought, do Americans really know how to use metric units correctly? :rolleyes: Someone tell me please which from these pictures the F-22 RCS will be equal to a cmxcm pixel for a radar.
martinezIntresting data about Su-24 modernisation.
What may look disappointing is:“The aircraft service life will be increased by up to 2,400 flight hours or 30 years of service.”
.
Interesting remark, but be aware that GEFEST itself is not authorized to do any service life extensions to any modernized aircraft, it is a company involved in navigation, weapon, flight control, monitoring,… systems. The Sukhoi design bureau can do it, no one else. When talking about good export potential, GEFEST needs Sukhoi when customer will require the SLEP.
Anyway what is the service life(year/flight hours) of Su-24MK?? I guess it could be low, bcs of swing-wing design and similar to Mig-23(17y/1500fh).
Does anybody know if this concept is used with the Algerian Su-24’s?
I`m sorry, do not know anything about that.
martinezShould be the “Su-24M2” or the “Sukhoi upgrade”.
Su-24M2
Upgrade for the Su-24M `Fencer-D’ developed by Gefest and T Company based at Zhukovsky. A development example has been undergoing trials at the 4th Combat Training Centre of tactical air forces in Lipetsk since late 1999. Upgrade includes replacement of standard Orbital-10 onboard computer with the new SVP-24 computer, installing a GPS receiver and the KAI-24 HUD. In addition to improving the navigation accuracy of the Su-24, it is claimed that the accuracy of unguided weapons attacks would be brought up to almost equal to the accuracy of guided munitions. It is reported that seven Russian Air Force examples have been upgraded as of mid-2002. Additionally seven Algerian Air Force examples have been upgraded. The work is being carried out at the Novosibirsk NAPO plant.Sukhoi
Upgrade option launched for the export Su-24MK `Fencer-D’ in June 2000 similar to the Su-24 Bis offered to Russian forces. Package includes installation of the A737 GPS receiver, a digital map system displayed on a radar screen, replacement of the original radar screen by the new IT-23M CRT monitor, installation of the new ILS-31 head-up display (HUD), new radio communications sets and flight data recording systems. The upgraded aircraft will also receive a new pre-flight data input system. An important aspect of the modernisation will be to change the aircraft servicing pattern to an on-condition maintenance system. The aircraft service life will be increased by up to 2,400 flight hours or 30 years of service. Optional proposals include the replacement of CRT displays with colour liquid-crystal displays (LCDs), new software for the onboard computer (offering improved accuracy for delivering unguided weapons) and a coded datalink. New weapons to be employed will be Kh-31A (AS-17 `Krypton’) anti-ship missiles, Kh-31P anti-radar missiles, Kh-59MK (AS-18 `Kazoo’) stand-off TV-guided missiles, KAB-500Kr TV-guided bombs, as well as a podded electronic warfare (EW) system
I`ve not been much interested in the Su-24 topic but at Maks07 I got some goodies from Gefest and T company. The Gefest is offering the low cost modernization (digitalization) for all export Su-24MK. They offer similar upgrades for Tu-22M3, Mig-27, Su-22M, L-39, Mi-17, Mi-24, Ka-50.
what I found interesting is this….copy and paste
The offered modernization of the aircraft is made on the open architecture at the repair plants or in the places of deployment during 5 to 7 working days.
The blocks mounting is effected without aircraft design modifications, especially in the flight compartment.
about the new HUD installed…
The mounting of an information forming block BFI and of an aircraft indicator collimator KAI-24P operating in the television standard allows to visualize at the same time the flight, navigation and sighting data and the electronic terrain map facilitating substantially by the same the sighting, tactical and combat tasks solution
What I found most interesting is that they left(probably they had to) the old Orion-A and Relief radars intact as well as the Kaira LTvPS targeting system.
martinezthats a cool camo, but i thought i posted a topic about this yesterday, why did they remove it :confused:
i hope other NATO countries wound paint there aircraft in the same scheme :rolleyes:
Maybe mods were pi$$ed off because of multiplied post. However, I like the expression “fractal camo” you used much more than the word “digital”.
martinezI tell you just make a small watermark on the photo.there is no dearth of unscrupulous publications..and when the picture is so beautiful..:cool:
do not worry buddy, I have his permission.
martinezHoly crap… That left me really speechless…
Are more of our MiGs planned to wear this scheme?
yes, this type of camo, but each a/c will receive a different pattern.
martinezI knew that our fighters need a new paint ASAP, but I didnt expect that it will be so good. Cool!!! 🙂 🙂
Wooow, a friend sent me this photo…..:dev2:
martinezwhy 3M was abandoned in favor of Tu-95 mods?
Bcs of Tupolev`s bitch-like behaviour, he used connections in the CPSU(communist party) and that way he had downed rivals who had tried to surpass him in his own bomber aviation class.
….a very nice Myasishchev 3M video.
http://aviaart.ru/index.php?page=61&id_foto=282&id_project=46&p=11
Speaking of Tupolevs bombers, this one will bring you to knees, especially the ultra low fly-by. I think Arthur will appreciate 🙂 , but there is more….
http://aviaart.ru/index.php?page=61&id_foto=292&id_project=46&p=3
martinezHi, it depends where is your hotel located. The quickest way to travel through Moscow is the subway, check the map below. As I remember I paid 140Rubels for a season-ticket (10 rides) in August 2007. To visit Zhukovsky you need to get to the station “Vikhino” -purple line. Then again for the fastest way to get to Zhukovsky, take the small bus called “marshrutka” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshrutka with a plate “Ramenskoe-Zhukovsky, Gromov square” on the windscreen. The price varied from 40 to 100 Rubels during the MAKS event, but now I assume prices are low. The bus and train is slow and rather unpleasant with a crowd of people hovering around you.
For visiting Monino, you should get to the subway station “Shchelkovskaya” – dark blue line, then take the “Marshrutka” bus No. 362, walking around the Flight academy and you are IN.
But when considering that you`re on bussiness there, do not be a miser and rent a car with a native driver….:)
Wish you a safe trip.
M
martinezA lomcovak isn’t named after a person:
According to:
http://www.airshowbuzz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1955&st=0
“Like most everyone else in America who has been anywhere close to aerobatic aviation in the last 40 years I have listened to stories about and witnessed the Lomcovak and always heard it pronounced “LUM-sho-vok”. Well, it ain’t so. The true pronunciation is “Lom-TSO-vok”. A “C” in Czech and Slovak with no accent marks of any kind is most often pronounced “ts”. I have spent a lot of time in the Czech Republic and Slovakia and nature filmmaker Steve Lichtag, my best friend of 21 years, grew up in Brno, Czechoslovakia, now the Moravian part of the Czech Republic, the heart of “Lomcovak” country. As is partially described on this web site http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats/lomcovak_headache.htm, the term is strictly Moravian slang and is used to describe an extremely strong drink of Slivovice, pronounced “Slivovitz” in Czech and “Slivovitse” in Slovak, not “Slivovitch” as Danny said it at the GML show. It also describes the results of drinking such a concoction. I called Steve in Prague today and asked him about Lomcovak. While Steve did not know of its connection to aviation he re-affirmed what is on the aforementioned web site. When I mentioned the aerobatics he replied, “Well, if there’s a manuever named Lomcovak then it must be something that looks completely crazy and out of control.” Bingo, Steve, you hit the nail on the head.
So that’s the story. The Lomcovak is pronounced “lom-TSO-vok” and the plum brandy Slivovice (of which I have partaken more than I should admit) is pronounced “Slivovitz”. I hope in time both the aerobatic world and the air show circuit make these corrections, both out of accuracy and out of respect for the countries that brought us this manuever.”
Geeez, English is so crazy. 🙂 All those explanations of what this slang expression “Lomcovák” means and how to pronounce it correctly. So, listen carefully…….
http://www.gamaholding.sk/test/lm.mp3
This is how they pronounce it in Slovakia, where the pilot Mr. Ladislav Bezák who first flew the “Lomcovak” was born in “Lučenec” (pronounce as “Luchenets”) town in 1938. Czech pronounciation is the same. The acute mark above the vowel “a” indicates the lenghtening of the quantity of the vowel and is spelled as “aa”. As you said before the “c” letter is pronounced as “ts” in English.
Regarding the connection to the strongest alcoholic beverage named “Slivovica” I do not mind, but it is not direct. When you drink a very strong home made distillate containing 75%(or more) of alcohol in the morning, you can say that it is a good way to start a new day with a glass of “lomcovák”.:D
The slang expression “Lomcovák” originated from the verb “lomcovať” which can be translated to english with help of verbs “shake, rock, toss ” meaning to move up and down with violence, moving irregularly, to twist, turn or shake repeatedly….etc. This is what a glass of home made “Slivovica” will do to you. 😀
Therefore calling it a “headache” which is a word with totally different meaning is not correct.
Anyway, to pronounce “Slivovica” correctly you have to add the vowel “a”- in Slovak or “e”-in Czech at the end of the word.
M
martinez. Wish they had done something to include underbelly/carriage weapons instead of just hooking everything on the wings.
Regards,
USS.
they had done, the K/KUB is capable of carrying air-to-ship missile/bomb armament underbelly. Why you think the 35 will be different?
martinezCalm down dear – its only an advert! (meaningless unless you live in the UK)
I got a signed ‘freebie’ – ‘cos I helped with proof reading the English translation.
It is part one – and covers the development of the T10 – up to the flight testing of the prototypes.
It is very in-depth – too much so for the English/western casual market IMHO.
This is no coffee table book – it has chapters on each of the 10+ design variations studied – with charts, layouts, wind tunnel model data etc – really really in-depth.
In typical Russian style, it lists all the people involved at every stage – including, almost, the shop floor cleaners!
Ildar told me that Part two – covering the T10S and production – will be released in Russian next year – possibly at Gelendzhik.
The English translation of part two is due at MAKS 09.
I’ll take some photos/scans of the book and post them here – in the meantime, the website (in Russian) is here.
The ‘Knigi’ (Books) section is at http://www.be-and-co.com/books/ – but there is, as yet, no photo of the English edition.
The ISBN btw is :- 5-901668-13-8
Ken
I agree with all said above, the book is really stunning. Shows many charts, graphs, Cy, Cx dependencies, ….etc, they`ve tested many models in wind-tunnels. Some graphs even show how inferior the F-15 layout was against the initial T-10. :diablo:
I`ve seen the book for 1700 to 2000Rubles at MAKS, depended on the seller and your negotiation skills. 😀
martinezhttp://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=156945
Did they move the Yak-141 from Monino? Or is it another prototype?
no, still there, but I`m not sure how many Yak-141 prototypes were built. The Zhukovsky Yak-141 had also b/n 141 as I remember. My colleague did a photo from a different angle with bort number visible.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=156945
But you DID see it – it’s just behind Frogfoot 33r. You can note it down in your books now
Maybe my eyes saw it, but my brain didn’t. That`s embarrassing..:D
martinezKen, what do you think of it?
What, it weights 4kg???? no way,:eek: now I understand why my baggage was so heavy 😀 😀 but I bought the russian edition. Anyway, when looking it at Maks for the first time, I was shocked the book is really, really good and as you know me Im a very, very demanding reader.;)
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