Cosmic Wind.
“We’re not talking about unlimited aerobatics in a warbird simply poorly and unneccesary routines that involve little room for error and seem to be focused on displaying the pilot skills rather than the aircraft.”
Do you mean poorly planned and unnecessary routines? If the pilot has been given a display authority surely that implies the routine was planned. Or do you really think the pilot would deliberately place both the aircraft and themselves at risk? Don’t you find anything even the slightest bit repugnant in suggesting that any pilot would take such risks just to show off their abilities?
“None of the previously mentioned accidents that resulted from a departure were from advanced aerobatics simply too slow too low.”
I’m sure you’ve heard of accidents? “An unexpected event which causes damage or harm – Something that happens without planning or intention.” Or are you implying their skills were insufficient or that their mental state led them into errors? It’s ok to sit there and pontificate when the poor buggers aren’t here to defend themselves anymore.
Regards,
kev35
Damien.
I thought you had contacts there. Thanks for the offer. Ian has replied to me and is getting in touch with AAG so that’s looking hopeful.
Thanks,
kev35
I think an essential point is being missed here. Have any of you stopped to consider how lucky we are to be able to see ANY warbird displayed here in the UK? After hearing Lee Proudfoot’s talk on Sunday at Duxford, it is beyond belief to suggest that any warbird owner, operator or pilot would jeopardise, through an ego trip, the safety of themselves, their aircraft or their audience. Insurance, maintenance, fuel, the costs are astronomical. Yet here we are arguing over whether this display is ‘too flat’ or this one contained too many ‘rolls and loops.’ How many of us here can comment with authority on such things? How many of us put hundreds of thousands of pounds of our own money in to seeing these warbirds remain airworthy?
Accidents happen, have always happened and will continue to happen. It is disgusting to suggest that pilots and crews who have died in accidents may have done so because of an inflated ego.
Regards,
kev35
Been in touch with Cosford this morning regarding a tour of the restoration centre. We have good news and bad news. The good news is a tour can be organised, a booking form is being sent out to me. The bad news is that tours can only take place on a Friday afternoon. I know many of you work and would find Friday afternoon’s impossible to manage so what we have to now consider is this….
Do we go ahead and arrange a meet for a Friday afternoon when a tour is possible and just go with those who can attend.
OR
Go for a Sunday between now and say, early December and just spend the day looking around the museum and maybe a meal in the pub up or down the road, there are plenty to choose from. I think you could spend the best part of the day wondering around Cosford anyway without any other entertainment.
OR
Do both. I’d be happy to sort out something for either idea or both as that way we can include as many people as possible. I only live 20 minutes away so would be happy to visit twice.
So, let’s hear what you all think. And then we’ll take it from there.
Regards,
kev35
“I would be inclined to disagree with you there Kev. The ‘Ace’ fighter pilot can be traced back to the First World War, and in that particular conflict they were definitely ‘on their own’ as such – the RFC fighter pilots were about the only numerous ‘command’ (correct me if I’m wrong please). Different war though. At that time ALL of aviation was a thing of awe-inspiring wonder. All pilots were held in some kind of appealing esteem.”
You are of course right to a point. Air to air fighting was new, and, indeed, made a striking counterpoint to the slaughter in the trenches. A press report saying “our airmen shot down six of their airmen for the loss of just two of our pilots” is bound to sound more favourable than one saying “two thousand allied soldiers were killed today but we gained thirty yards of ground.”
Cobber Kain’s success, or the successes of the pilots of Fighter Command in the Battle of Britain are not to be denigrated, least of all by me. In fact I attribute the survival of this Country to that gallant group of pilots. The fact remains that the war was going badly, the threat of invasion was real, the odds were certainly against this Country. For morale reasons the slightest hint of success was turned into a major victory. Take Dunkirk, essentially the routing of an Army which was viewed as a triumph.
Your point about bomber losses early in the war are merely comparative. The losses were not considered heavy because large numbers of aircraft were not available. Although that would be small comfort to the crews of 2 Group for instance for whom the losses were enormous.
You also talk about the ‘Ace’ pilot. It would be interesting to know how many pilots never made a single claim. I think you’d find it a considerable number. As the Fighter Command policy of leaning out progressed it became much more of a team war. Yes, there were huge melees but pilots were encouraged to fight in pairs to protect each other. You’ll find that all the great “Aces” had superbly skillful and reliable wingmen.
No-one can deny that Bomber Command’s losses were horrendous. it should be remembered that as far as the heavies are concerned each crew lost was seven men not one. I think that’s why the losses were described as percentages. An acceptable loss of six percent of a bomber force of five hundred aircraft was thirty aircraft or two hundred and ten men. Those figures do not sound “acceptable”, six percent does.
You talk about those of the Royal Navy, Merchant Navy, the Army, Gurkhas, Burma and the Fourteenth ‘Forgotten’ Army. There is arguably less glamour in the Infantryman’s slog through Europe, North Africa and the Far East. Or in the cold waters of the Arctic Circle or shark infested seas of the Pacific. What it boils down to is what it said in your last sentence, we owe our thanks to all of them, for all time.
It’s as simple as that.
Regards,
kev35
DazDaMan.
I’ll have a read for you if you want. Would be nice to see a work in progress.
Regards,
kev34
DazDaMan.
I’ll have a read for you if you want. Would be nice to see a work in progress.
Regards,
kev34
Moggy.
“Probably a longing after the chivalry of knightly combat, venerated as a counterpoint to the ‘production line’ slaughter of the trenches in 1914-18?”
Or as a diversion away from the horrendous losses, or production line slaughter, suffered by Bomber Command?
Regards,
kev35
Some cracking photos there as usual. Glad you had a good afternoon. We’ll have to try and get another meet set up some time before Christmas.
Regards,
kev35
Just to echo everyone else’s sentiments really. Another well planned day out which was great. The opportunity to get so close to the OFMC aircraft was very welcome and Lee Proudfoot’s talk was very illuminating. His sheer enthusiasm and passion shone through.
The Duxford documentary was a real treasure and worthy of being released on video/DVD. And Dambusters on a big screen? Worth going for that alone.
Another enjoyable and memorable day.
Here’s a pic of Moggy enjoying himself.
Regards,
kev35
Steve.
No problem, keep it as long as you need.
Ant.
I thought about Ford being a naval station as well, but seeing as the RAFM kept copies of all the USAAF station maps, I’ve a feeling they have them all.
Regards,
kev35
Macky42.
Sorry, address follows.
Department of Research and Information Services,
Royal Air Force Museum,
Grahame Park Way,
Hendon,
LONDON
NW9 5LL.
I think if you ring the RAF Museum they can put you through. That way you could find out the availability of any plans and the costs involved.
Hope that’s a bit more helpful.
Regards,
kev35
Macky.
I would try DORIS at the RAF Museum. I had a large scale map of Kimbolton from there a number of years ago and it was excellent.
Regards,
kev35
A Nimrod, an E3 Sentry and an RAF Tristar all passed over Walsall yesterday morning heading west at about 15,000′. Anybody know of an exercise?
Regards,
kev35
“Tallboys or Grand Slams?”
Just pray that they weren’t of the bouncing variety. Still, a novel way of decorating the bathroom.
Regards,
kev35