kev35Sauron.
“Predictable responses so far.”
Including of course your own.
“I for one am hoping that the current level of termoil in Iraq settles down ASAP.”
The majority of people are hoping the situation will calm down, but how long will it take and at what cost to the remaining infrastructure of a fractured society?
“Given the events of the last three weeks and particularly the last 48 hrs I am not surprised at what is taking place.”
If you are not surprised by what is taking place then why did the military not plan an appropriate response to the breakdown of law and order?
“Lets hope that once most elements of Saddam’s regime are sacked, people will turn to more productive persuits.”
You mean the palaces and the ministries. Incidentally, why is the oil ministry the only public building to be protected by US troops? With the altruistic reasons for America’s involvement in Iraq it seems incredible that US troops are standing idly by while hospitals are ransacked and destroyed. Surely the way to win hearts and minds is by protecting such places and instilling a climate where the people work together with their ‘liberators’ to restore society. We keep hearing Iraqis on the news saying how pleased they are to have the Americans in Baghdad. Of course they are, they have gone from oppression to anarchy in the space of a few hours. America stated it was their intention to liberate the people of Iraq but at the moment it seems they have jumped from the frying pan into the fire.
Just heard that General Franks has said that the Iraqi leadership are ‘either dead or running like hell.’ In other words there is still absolutely no evidence as to the whereabouts or health of the main leadership. I would have thought it would have been wise to either capture Saddam or at least have a body they could show. I fail to see how that can happen when they drop 8,000 lbs of bombs on a building he is supposed to be inside? There wouldn’t be enough left of him to fill a freezer bag would there?
Regards
kev35
kev35TTP.
“We’ve known about them for the last 20 years, just like we’ve known about the Chinese and the Russians have nukes for the last 50 years, So whats your point???”
The point is you didn’t care then because Iraq was a trusted friend and ally. What’s the betting that much of the technology employed by Iraq in the construction of WMD originated in America?
“The reason we didn’t do anything about them was because prior to SEPT 11, they weren’t a threat! after Sept 11 they are a threat??? is this so hard for you guys to realize the impact of SEPT 11th?? can’t you realize that everything has changed because the threats are different.”
September the 11th was perpetrated by a group armed with nothing more than knives. No chemicals, no suitcase bombs, nothing. Why America got so upset was because terrorism invaded your shores. You got a taste of what many other countries have been blighted by for years. The American Government was stung because America’s aura of impregnability was breached. As Elp so eloquently says about anything which might be considered a wrongdoing on America’s part ‘move on, get over it.’ September 11th is not a justification for America’s actions in Iraq. America has admitted there is no link between Iraq and September 11th. If WMD are such a threat I take it America will shortly be invading North Korea? How about Syria? Anyone else on George Bush’s target list?
“The US fears no nation or army but we are fearful of a few lunatics with a briefcase full of WMD’s”
When terrorists threaten you they must be stopped. When terrorists threaten others they are encouraged? One word…Noraid.
“Sorry to go on a rant Kev, Hope I answered your question.”
Please don’t apologise for expressing your opinion, but, no, you didn’t answer my question, did you?
Regards,
kev35
kev35TTP.
“We’ve known about them for the last 20 years, just like we’ve known about the Chinese and the Russians have nukes for the last 50 years, So whats your point???”
The point is you didn’t care then because Iraq was a trusted friend and ally. What’s the betting that much of the technology employed by Iraq in the construction of WMD originated in America?
“The reason we didn’t do anything about them was because prior to SEPT 11, they weren’t a threat! after Sept 11 they are a threat??? is this so hard for you guys to realize the impact of SEPT 11th?? can’t you realize that everything has changed because the threats are different.”
September the 11th was perpetrated by a group armed with nothing more than knives. No chemicals, no suitcase bombs, nothing. Why America got so upset was because terrorism invaded your shores. You got a taste of what many other countries have been blighted by for years. The American Government was stung because America’s aura of impregnability was breached. As Elp so eloquently says about anything which might be considered a wrongdoing on America’s part ‘move on, get over it.’ September 11th is not a justification for America’s actions in Iraq. America has admitted there is no link between Iraq and September 11th. If WMD are such a threat I take it America will shortly be invading North Korea? How about Syria? Anyone else on George Bush’s target list?
“The US fears no nation or army but we are fearful of a few lunatics with a briefcase full of WMD’s”
When terrorists threaten you they must be stopped. When terrorists threaten others they are encouraged? One word…Noraid.
“Sorry to go on a rant Kev, Hope I answered your question.”
Please don’t apologise for expressing your opinion, but, no, you didn’t answer my question, did you?
Regards,
kev35
kev35Tempest.
“Good question about the uppers and downers Kev, I’m glad you’ve read Dispatches, its the best description of real war I’ve ever come across.”
I would have thought it was a pre-requisite for anyone with an interest in Vietnam. A cracking book, one of my favourites.
Regards,
kev35
kev35Tempest.
“Good question about the uppers and downers Kev, I’m glad you’ve read Dispatches, its the best description of real war I’ve ever come across.”
I would have thought it was a pre-requisite for anyone with an interest in Vietnam. A cracking book, one of my favourites.
Regards,
kev35
kev35Sauron.
“Kevin
You can’t have it both ways.”
No, it has to be America’s way doesn’t it?
“The fact is none of us know the truth of the matter but its obvious you are determined to blame the US for any and all unfortunate events.”
Possibly so, and to the same extent that you are prepared to exonerate the US of blame for any and all unfortunate events.
Regards
kev35
kev35Sauron.
“Kevin
You can’t have it both ways.”
No, it has to be America’s way doesn’t it?
“The fact is none of us know the truth of the matter but its obvious you are determined to blame the US for any and all unfortunate events.”
Possibly so, and to the same extent that you are prepared to exonerate the US of blame for any and all unfortunate events.
Regards
kev35
kev35TTP.
“I agree, Bush made it clear that whoever used them would be held accountable, also Saddam was smart enough to realize the whole world would have turned against him if he did, Well maybe not the French, but who really cares what they think anymore.”
Don’t agree with the US therefore that country is relegated to the status of an irrelevance. It doesn’t occur to you that possibly, just possibly, American military intelligence may have got it wrong? There have been precedents you know.
“I’ve been in the Air Force for close to twenty years and we’ve always been briefed on Iraqui chems and possible nukes, this issue is old news,”
You’ve known about, and felt threatened, by them for the last twenty years yet only now are you prepared to do something about them? Your old news has certainly come back to bite you in the ass. How many Americans now dead in Iraq?
“I just hope he didn’t send them to Syria or wherever, “
A cynic might think that that is exactly what America wants. A ready made excuse to attack another member of the axis of evil and a ready made base from which to launch their attack.
“undoubtably all the useless debating at the UN gave him plenty of lead time to hide/move them.”
The previous twenty years weren’t long enough?
“Although I must admit I was surprised he didn’t use them when things were getting bad, maybe he was injured.”
He’s injured, he’s dead, he died the first night, he died last week, he died this week, he’s holed up in a Mosque, he’s in the Russian Embassy, he’s in Syria, he’s in the North, he’s in Mosul, he’s in Tikrit and on and on when what you really mean is that just like Osama bin Laden, you don’t really have a clue.
Regards,
kev35
kev35TTP.
“I agree, Bush made it clear that whoever used them would be held accountable, also Saddam was smart enough to realize the whole world would have turned against him if he did, Well maybe not the French, but who really cares what they think anymore.”
Don’t agree with the US therefore that country is relegated to the status of an irrelevance. It doesn’t occur to you that possibly, just possibly, American military intelligence may have got it wrong? There have been precedents you know.
“I’ve been in the Air Force for close to twenty years and we’ve always been briefed on Iraqui chems and possible nukes, this issue is old news,”
You’ve known about, and felt threatened, by them for the last twenty years yet only now are you prepared to do something about them? Your old news has certainly come back to bite you in the ass. How many Americans now dead in Iraq?
“I just hope he didn’t send them to Syria or wherever, “
A cynic might think that that is exactly what America wants. A ready made excuse to attack another member of the axis of evil and a ready made base from which to launch their attack.
“undoubtably all the useless debating at the UN gave him plenty of lead time to hide/move them.”
The previous twenty years weren’t long enough?
“Although I must admit I was surprised he didn’t use them when things were getting bad, maybe he was injured.”
He’s injured, he’s dead, he died the first night, he died last week, he died this week, he’s holed up in a Mosque, he’s in the Russian Embassy, he’s in Syria, he’s in the North, he’s in Mosul, he’s in Tikrit and on and on when what you really mean is that just like Osama bin Laden, you don’t really have a clue.
Regards,
kev35
kev35Sauron.
“Yes, lets just blame the guys that are actually taking the fire and fighting the war.”
Yes, let’s do that. On to your second point.
“After all the journalists are all qualified military ‘experts’ and far better judges at determining the sounds and sources of various gunfire in the middle of a battle in a large city were sounds are reverberating and echoing off of multiple walls and surfaces.”
The journalists are no more expert than the military. Remember that for many of those Americans fighting in Baghdad it is their first combat experience. One hell of a learning curve. Some of the journalists in that hotel have been under fire a lot more than some of those doing the fighting.
“Certainly there was no likelyhood that Iraqi troops, paramilitaries, secret police or press minders were targeting the troops. They were all just standing around blowing kisses at the US forces at the time.”
It is just as likely that those you describe were targeting US troops as it is unlikely that a well-trained, well-educated well-equipped American pilot should mistake a convoy of jeeps containing US special forces for a T-72 tank.
“Certainly they would never infiltrate a hotel for use as a firing position in order to encourage return fire from the US forces.”
Of course not, just as America would never use the pretext of ridding a country of it’s weapons of mass destruction to engineer a full scale invasion leading to regime change.
Regards
kev35
kev35Sauron.
“Yes, lets just blame the guys that are actually taking the fire and fighting the war.”
Yes, let’s do that. On to your second point.
“After all the journalists are all qualified military ‘experts’ and far better judges at determining the sounds and sources of various gunfire in the middle of a battle in a large city were sounds are reverberating and echoing off of multiple walls and surfaces.”
The journalists are no more expert than the military. Remember that for many of those Americans fighting in Baghdad it is their first combat experience. One hell of a learning curve. Some of the journalists in that hotel have been under fire a lot more than some of those doing the fighting.
“Certainly there was no likelyhood that Iraqi troops, paramilitaries, secret police or press minders were targeting the troops. They were all just standing around blowing kisses at the US forces at the time.”
It is just as likely that those you describe were targeting US troops as it is unlikely that a well-trained, well-educated well-equipped American pilot should mistake a convoy of jeeps containing US special forces for a T-72 tank.
“Certainly they would never infiltrate a hotel for use as a firing position in order to encourage return fire from the US forces.”
Of course not, just as America would never use the pretext of ridding a country of it’s weapons of mass destruction to engineer a full scale invasion leading to regime change.
Regards
kev35
kev35Tempest.
“Soldiers are humans, not robots.
A good book to read in this respect is Michael Herr’s Disptaches. It gives a very real and honest perspective of war.”
And gave rise to the passage about LRRP’s taking medication in order to perform their duties. Something about taking uppers from one pocket and downers from another…”One pill to cut the trail and another to send you down it.” Then as now? The use of unprescribed and unsupervised self-medication of substances which are in fact prescription only medicines to enable soldiers (airmen) to function better in battle? So is your next justification for the tank crew likely to be ‘well, they were a bit high/strung out’?
The American instinct to ‘shoot first and ask questions afterwards’ does little credit to them when their victims are often the only people willing to join them in their military endeavours.
Regards,
kev35
kev35Tempest.
“Soldiers are humans, not robots.
A good book to read in this respect is Michael Herr’s Disptaches. It gives a very real and honest perspective of war.”
And gave rise to the passage about LRRP’s taking medication in order to perform their duties. Something about taking uppers from one pocket and downers from another…”One pill to cut the trail and another to send you down it.” Then as now? The use of unprescribed and unsupervised self-medication of substances which are in fact prescription only medicines to enable soldiers (airmen) to function better in battle? So is your next justification for the tank crew likely to be ‘well, they were a bit high/strung out’?
The American instinct to ‘shoot first and ask questions afterwards’ does little credit to them when their victims are often the only people willing to join them in their military endeavours.
Regards,
kev35
kev35Bournville, Mars, Dairy Milk, Twirls, Mars, Flakes, Rolo, Mars, Yorkie, Galaxy, Caramel, Mars, Ripple, ………….
Did I mention Mars?
WHY DO I HAVE TO BE DIABETIC?:mad: 😡 😡 😡
Regards,
kev35
kev35Bournville, Mars, Dairy Milk, Twirls, Mars, Flakes, Rolo, Mars, Yorkie, Galaxy, Caramel, Mars, Ripple, ………….
Did I mention Mars?
WHY DO I HAVE TO BE DIABETIC?:mad: 😡 😡 😡
Regards,
kev35
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