Hi, all.

TTP and Jonesy speak passionately and eloquently about the reasons why this war is justified, and, due to their military backgrounds, probably with a lot more knowledge. But they must understand that the rest of us show our naivete because we are fed only what Governments want us to hear. Rightly or wrongly, many members of this forum consider the current American administration to be fundamentally flawed and therefore are unwilling to blindly believe their propaganda and rhetoric.

Many of us would have given our support to this war if the situation was clearer, if evidence of WMD had been found. The Americans on this forum who have been in favour of this war, SOC, PII, Scooter and Vortex, have repeatedly been asked about the situation following the ousting of Saddam Hussein. What kind of Government will be formed? How long will the US stay in control of Iraq? What about the oil? None of these members has even tried to respond, we just get more anti-European rhetoric.

It seems that some members of this forum believe only their points of view are valid and worthy of respect. TTP admirably demonstrated this in his posts to Geforce. Geforce may only be 18 years old but his views are no less worthy of respect than anyone else’s. His views are passionate and he has every right to hold them. You may have forgot, TTP, but American and British forces are currently fighting in Iraq to bring those rights to an oppressed population. Are you going to deny them that right if their point of view differs from yours? How old were you when you joined the military? You were probably a lot more naive than you are now but doubtless no less passionate.

Your comment about Bastogne is disingenuous to say the least. Geforce, being Belgian, has a good idea about what the occupation of a Country by a foreign power means. The reminders are all around him in the people, the Cemeteries, the architecture, even the very ground itself.

I wasn’t in favour of this war. You talk about twelve years on and Saddam has still not disarmed, why then was this war not fought eleven, eight, six or five years ago? Why now when you are still struggling to quell Afghanistan? When Bin Laden is still alive and free? A cynic might believe the American Government has gone for Iraq because it is the easier option.

However, we have a war and I sincerely hope it is concluded with the minimum loss of life on all sides.

BTW, I’m a little older than 19, but possibly no wiser.:)

Regards,

kev35

Re: Manchester

I fully intend to be there on the 10th of July. So there’ll be at least three of us. Had absolutely no joy talking to anyone from Manchester. Happy to drive anyone to or from the terminal or round to the viewing park if that’s best.

Regards,

kev35

Re: Oh well

PII,

“And perhaps my words on those human shield people were harsh, but I still feel that they are, for lack of a better word, idiots. And actually now I heard about another group that went over there to do the same thing but decided to come back before the shooting started. That is a good example of the “dedication and conviction” that some of these people have.”

It’s all subjective and you have a very moralistic and black and white attitude to the events going on around you. Some one hundred and forty years ago thousands of young Americans were just a few short months away from slaughtering each other at a place called Gettysburg. Those young men, and countless thousands of others in conflicts since, have given their lives so that people were allowed to be free. They’re doing it now in Iraq. But you insist that anyone whose views do not match your own are unworthy.

“Yet, last week there was a rally to support America, the president, and our troops, and it rained again. Yet, did they reschedule? No.”

If you truly are a supporter of this war then why let a drop of rain stop your rally. Do you realise how stupid that sounds? Your own countrymen are now facing chemical and biological attacks while their supporters at home are making a big deal out of holding a rally in the rain?

“So call me a war-monger if you must, but that’s truly not what I am. I’m simply someone who believes in the cause that this war is for.”

You are passionate about your beliefs, but please remember that those against the war hold equally passionate views. Their views are no less deserving of respect than yours.

Regards,

kev35

PII,

“Oh yeah and I heard something hilarious on TV. There’s apparently a group of anti-war protestors that are going to try to go to Baghdad and be human shields. I say let them go. I’d love the opportunity to hit one of them with a laser-guided bomb.”

Why is it hilarious? Whether these people are misguided or not is open to conjecture. They do, however, have the courage of their convictions and are prepared, even willing, to put themselves in harm’s way. How likely are you to die as a result of this war? Sorry, I forgot you’re still in college.

Leave the crass comments out please PII. They do neither yourself or your country any justice.

I echo Moggy’s sentiments and hope that it is all over very quickly to the benefit of everyone involved.

Regards,

kev35

ITN News at 9pm reported the B-52’s at Fairford were still there this evening, apparently having been armed with cruise missiles earlier in the day.

Does anyone know the flying time between Belgium and Iraq? Perhaps they are intending to be over their targets at the moment the deadline runs out.

Regards,

kev35

PII,

Originally posted by PhantomII
His only option is to resist, and eventually be crushed.

Sounds like a good trailer for the inevitable movie. Ever thought of getting a job writing sound bites for President Bush?

I think the war will start within the next few days, possibly even as soon as this Azores summit ends. There’s no stopping it now, justifiable or not. We can only hope it is short and with minimum casualties.

British forces, it seems, will be heavily involved as usual. I assume there will be casualties, if not from the Iraqis, from friendly fire. Let’s just hope this is the last time that a Bush administration is going to drag us all to the brink of catastrophe.

Regards,

kev35

I’d love to see the Dan-Air livery again, perhaps on something like a 767? The Courtaulds livery on their Tristars. Caledonian definitely, maybe on a 1-11. I’d also like to see the old BMA livery on a Viscount or a 707. How about the old British Air Ferries scheme on a 146?

Regards,

kev35

Re: America-A Success Or A Failure?

Originally posted by SOC
It’s been a while since I had a good debate, and I tend to inflame the argument and hit “Post” before I realize what exactly I was writing.

SOC admits he is a true product of the current American Government.

Regards,

kev35