Congratulations to the PLAAF on the Chinese government’s purchase of the Su-35S, a truly outstanding machine. If past experience is anything to go by, I can see a follow-on order for a similar quantity.
The Taiwanese (and to some extent Indian) press has expressed alarm @ this deal, hopefully it will spur the Indian government to quit dithering and conclude the ‘Super 30’ & FGFA contracts. There may be implications for the Rafale (the contract seemingly pushed back to next fiscal) if the PLAAF intend acquiring the Su-35S in significant numbers.
Yeah, apologies. I only realised shortly afterwards that yours was the same link and hence amended the post as ‘duplicate’.
You’re right on the launch ‘plumbing’ duplication, but it may not be conclusive for 2 missiles as it doesn’t actually show the launch rails and the Russkies do have previous experience of staggering an extra missile for a given space:
Further to Berkut’s post above, not new, but some newly released pics, of note: pic 13 shows FOD screen; pic 14 confirms canted engines and pic 16 triple launcher or dual?
It’s difficult to comment on specific die size etc. But all indications are that this is GaN, because GaAs MMIC tech has matured and been refined over the last 15 years and commercially available for at least a decade- hence wouldn’t require a Russian government funding programme in collaboration with universities to complete development. Commercial applications of GaAs, namely mobile phones have ensured its relatively cheap availability- GaN RF power transistors currently cost substantially more than a similarly sized GaAs device, and would explain Guskov’s emphasis on driving down cost as the quantities of GaN devices increase and its processes evolve, manufacturing cost will tumble narrowing the gap between the two.
Other indicators are greater efficiency (200km range radar for the Transas UAV), fewer T/R modules are needed as they’re optimised for high gain and power, which makes them particularly practical for UAV applications and will shortly debut on USAF UAVs.
Guskov’s claims of a high resolution of 30cm-50cm SAR is certainly indicative of the high power density associated with GaN – it’s more than twice the resolution advertised for the RBE2 (GaAs) AESA.
This is a hugely significant development, if they can get it to production in 5 years the timelines would be broadly comparable to the US and certainly ahead of Europe. Kudos.
Phazotron’s conformal AESA begins to take shape:
Now I’m confused. Doesn’t it mean specific weight (удельный вес)?
As far as I can see it is saying that it’s gonna weigh 30% less per unit of volume than 117S.
…or JSTCVW09CD could be right. I agree the literal meaning of удельный вес is ‘specific’ weight pertaining to the ratio of a gas turbine engine and it’s net thrust. The problem here is if you increase the T/Wr of the 117S (9.54) by 30%: gives a T/Wr of 12.4, BUT using 17,500 kgf as the ‘Type 30’s thrust gives a weight of 1,411kg- that’s heavier than the 117!!
Although at first I thought this was incredulous, I realised the F-119/135 also had significant weight gains from the previous generation engines, just the thrust gain was proportionately greater. However, the 117 bucks this trend by having both lower mass and greater thrust delivering a T/Wr of 10.9 [15,000/1370].
This is a simplistic calculation (open to correction) and something may be amiss here, as Trident says points of translation/usage, possible errors in reporting or other. I would still find it incredulous if the ‘Type 30’ is heavier than the 117!!!…but obviously it cannot be that 17,500/1,064 gives a T/Wr of 16!!
If the ‘Type 30’ had a weight ~1,400kg delivering 17.5T thrust (T/Wr 12.4) this compares very favourably with the F119 (16.4T/1,727kg*, T/Wr 9.5), and will deliver a generous dry/military thrust setting. Also it would weigh in @ over 500kg lighter than the F136 (and hence F135?), but we won’t get into that.
*using a generous thrust figure and dry weight comparable to F100-PW-229, as claimed on F16.net
the original document claims that 30% reduction is not about weight saving, but weight / thrust ratio reduction.
I’m not sure what you mean, could you be more specific?
Thanks for those links. Idz 30 spec seems too high of a benchmark as they are aiming for 30 % weight reduction and similar increase in thrust over 117 , that would be more than a generational leap if that were to be true. We will have to wait and see how things shape up…
Apologies, I got the wrong 117. Martchkov states that the Stage 2 engine/’Type 30′ (which he refers to as the ‘new 117’ as he’s obviously not at liberty to disclose the real designation), will weigh 30% less than the 117S *. As the 117S weighs the same as the AL-31FP @ 1,520 kg**, then a saving of 30% gives 1,064 kg a considerable achievement in itself, no doubt only achievable by a ‘clean sheet’ design and generational advance in materials & manufacturing methods (already detailed in my recent posts & links). As a comparison, the current 117 aboard the T-50 has a 150kg weight saving with 2.5T thrust increase over the AL-31FP, and that’s their 4G efforts exhausted.
*http://www.vz.ru/news/2012/11/13/606954.html
**http://npo-saturn.ru/?sat=64
**http://www.umpo.ru/Good27_16_140.aspx
Yeah, there is additional weight saving which equates to increased fuel efficiency, iIrc, it also has improved noise reduction. Cost advantages, if economies of scale are exploited- Titanium alloys are expensive. The CF composite blade is a commercial rival to OAO’ AviaEngine’s’ (OAO «Авиадвигатель») titanium-nickel alloy blade for the PD-14/A, see LEAP-X.
I’m pretty confident they can save 30% weight across the ‘Type 30’s LP, HP & turbine stages as the newly developed materials tech has become available. Whether that translates as an aggregate for the entire engine, remains to be seen.
Actually, FGUP ‘TsIAM’ (ФГУП ЦИАМ) completed development of CF polymer fan blades for 2 stages of the compressor, over a year ago:

Была разработана технология RTM для изготовления углепластиковых лопаток вентиляторов. Экспериментальными объектами стали: полноразмерная лопатка перспективного вентилятора, лопатки 1 й и 2 й ступеней модельного биротативного вентилятора.
The RTM technology was developed to facilitate the manufacture of carbon fibre fan blades for the compressor. Experimental examples were: a full scale future compressor with fan blades of the 1st and 2nd stages.
http://engine.aviaport.ru/main.htm
14/02/12
These are [nanomodified] polymer matrix composite (PMC) structures, what you see on the leading edge is the titanium alloy VT-6, it acts as a thermal shield- also visible on the Medvedev pic. The 1st stage of the ‘Type 30’s compressor will be a nanomodified metal matrix composite (MMC) structure, but in place of the VT-6 is boron.
Needless to say the ‘nanomodification’ of ‘Type 30’s fan blades will have a very special purpose indeed.
Just published titanium alloy hollow fan blade patent:
http://www.freepatent.ru/patents/2477191
Siemens PLM ‘Teamcentre’ PD-14 rendition:
Some PD-14 details:
http://www.umpo.ru/page656.aspx
http://www.avid.ru/eng/advanced-developments/Regional_Jet/ (english)
It appears that the wing mounted L-band AESAs have commenced production, GRPZ (ГРПЗ)are Tikhomirov-NIIR’s production facility. The advertising placard’s caption reads “onboard, multifunction digital interrogator with AESA”, so the primary use as IFF is confirmed (sorry it’s sideways).
Late last month PM Dimitry Medvedev toured FGUP ‘TsIAM’ (ФГУП “ЦИАМ), he is presented with their polymer composite compressor fan blade [below left] as an alternative to the current wide-chord, hollow titanium alloy (VT-6VT-8-1) blade for the PD-14 engine. It is envisioned that the later PD-14M will utilise the CF polymer composite blade.
The PM was also briefed on the company’s PAK-FA stage 2 engine components’ progress. These include: a high pressure compressor with fewer stages and lower mass; the main high temperature combustion chamber; single-staged, high temperature turbine section.
Also below [right] is the composite engine cowling for the PD-14, displayed at an engine expo last year. The chief of NPO Saturn, Martchkov, stated a weight saving of around 30% over the 117 for the ‘Type 30’, I guess (given their developments) it’s not such an unreasonable claim especially as the synergy between the PD-14/M and the ‘Type 30’ programmes has been stated many times.


LOL:rolleyes:
Much the Su-35 will find its way into the PAK-FA. From 117S Turbofans to many of its Avionics and Sub-Systems. As a matter of fact that was the major selling point of the Su-35. That it is a 4th Generation Fighter equipped with 5th Generation Components. (except stealth) 4+++ As the Russian call it…
Well, the USD295 million Indian Preliminary Design Contract PDC is due for completion at the end of this month. Then the IAF and MoD will conduct a review of the FGFA as per their RFP. Depending on it’s successful completion, it is envisaged the USD 5.5 billion R&D contract will be signed sometime in the late summer.
LM’s chief financial officer, Bruce Tanner, stated 2 weeks ago that they would market the F-35 more aggressively to new potential customers. As yet, however, the Indian side has not made any formal approach to LM, nor has LM sent a delegation to New Delhi to exploit this 11th hour ‘window’ to usurp the FGFA deal. As the F-35 has been emphatically rejected before, could explain the lack of activity from both sides. My feeling is the IAF are more than happy with the PAK-FA -despite cost escalations, time slippage and canning the 2 seater.
I can see your knowledge of the PAK-FA programme remains as bad as ever since your return from your self-imposed exile, though I concede the comedy value is the same.
The Su-35S is a formidable weapons system, the Chinese wouldn’t be buying it if it wasn’t. Sukhoi/KnAAPO is keen to sell because from the outset it was a purely commercial project 100% financed in-house with the assistance of a hefty bank loan. Along with a RuAF order of around 96, + 48 for the PLAAF, is a decent order book.
I don’t think the Chinese will be cannibalising the aircraft for the 117S engine, more likely the Russians are willing to sell the engine as a stand-alone item only after a sizeable Su-35S order, remember there are two competitors to the 117S- MMPP Salyut’s AL-31F-M2 & M3. The M2 is the direct counterpart to the 117S and the M3 would easily fulfill Chinese 5G requirements and they’d probably be prepared to bankroll the completion of its development. MMPP Salyut has a long and hugely successful commercial relationship with the Chinese based primarily on AL-31FN supplies.
The Russkies may also be using the S-400 as leverage for the Su-35S sale.
Most likely there will be contractual clauses for the basing of Su-35S’ a certain distance from the Russian border.
Forgot to mention the term ‘Intergovernmental agreement’ usually means that the said item is a constituent of a broader package, if previous experience is anything to go by.
Yet, the whole point is. What have we seen to make us believe Russia has closed the gap with the US in Avionics???
Have you heard of something called COTS?
The biggest Russian lag is probably indigenous semiconductor fabrication. I recently read somewhere the time taken to debug and security screen imported chips for the Su-34 radar was impacting aircraft delivery schedules. RuAF Su-30SMs will use Indian mission & radar computers.
However, the Russians are already acquiring Intel’s Xeon Phi coprocessors in large numbers, this is the sort of chipset they should be looking to install on serial T-50s.
The only other technological lag that springs to mind are military grade thermal imagers, but domestic shortcomings are offset by French and Israeli imports/licensed production.
Phazotron-NIIR are due to commence bench testing of their GaN AESA late next year, which puts them in line with comparable western developments, a GaN array for serial T-50s would be (another) World first.