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Jō Asakura

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Viewing 15 posts - 721 through 735 (of 1,223 total)
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  • in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2317391
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    I’m not sure I follow your reasoning, Peregrinefalcon.
    If one of these (staggered) middle launchers of either bay was missing, it would look very similar (imho):

    http://www.armybase.us/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/f-22-raptor-shows-its-weapons-bay-doors.jpg

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2317550
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    The more I look @ that pic, the more it appears that the central (3rd) launcher has been omitted. I mean look @ the clearances to the bay walls- a 3rd R-77 type could be accommodated in the centre and still leave a similar clearance .

    If it was purpose built for 2 launchers then either the clearances between the launchers to the side walls and each other should be the same or the 2 launchers should be closer together and the wall clearances greater.This arrangement is neither and looks kinda suspicious!

    Does anyone have a rough idea of the width of those MLG wheels as a point of scaling reference?

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2318476
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    perhaps a triple launcher would have problems clearing the outer missiles from the bay

    There may be another reason for the 2 launch mechanism as seen on the S-37, namely it is for initial trials into controlled release of weapons and an understanding of the airflow field of the bay of those particular dimensions, the weight distribution of weapons in the bay and a computational fluid understanding of the upstream boundary layer over a range of flight regimes and velocities.

    Given the irregular location of the T-50’s bays, these flows are likely to be ‘interesting’ to say the least- not to mention the effects of a variety of physical forces such as highly unsteady vortex shedding and strong pressure oscillations that may be evident in the flow.

    So the twin-launcher may be for early research and a triple launcher may follow (as already stated/demonstrated- there’s no lack of space).

    Having said that there may be the possibility that the twin launcher may be dictated by the T-50’s w/bay fluidic flow field, as a triple launcher may endanger the aircraft but then that would be a design flaw and should have been addressed at the conceptual design stage as I doubt that would’ve conformed with the RuMoD/AF RFP.

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2319473
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    The greatest advantage I can see from 4 hard points inside MWB other than possibility to carry great variety of large caliber missiles is opportunity to carry 4 LRAAM in RVV-BD class.

    Advantages:

    +200km range – highest range for any current/future missile (version for MIG-31BM/SU-35S should have ~280km range)
    That way PAK FA with powerful AESA radar is able to take first shot at enemy, especially at non VLO targets.

    When fighting, either non or VLO targets, you have time/speed advantage because RVV-BD is hypersonic class missile. If the PAK FA and opposing VLO plane are able to see each other at about the same time/distance, faster missile should be able to cover that distance in much shorter time span.
    In combination with larger ARH head with greater tracking range (especially for stealth targets) he could disengage much earlier in order to avoid incoming missiles.

    In combination with side mounted radars PAK FA should give mid-course updates to the missile and at the same time he can run away from the incoming enemy missile maximizing its chances for survival.

    Also, greater power of large ARH head should be able to burn through jamming more efficiently than the smaller one.

    Such a big missile is maybe not as maneuverable as MRAAM`s but it can compensate that with 60kg warhead and high speed.

    We all know that BVR missiles have very poor Pk but they pose undeniable tactical advantage. That way the plane that can shoot first dictates the “rules of engagement” and have undisputable advantage when entering the WVR fight. And at the ranges where VLO opponents can detect each other, you probably don`t have the time to fire all 4 missiles, so the number of missiles is not much of a concern. And judging by the potential PAK FA`s maneuverability that is the plan from the beginning when fighting VLO targets. Run your enemy down to WVR fight and finish him there with superior maneuverability.

    I’m not sure about your assessment Peregrinefalcon, as a true successor to the Su-27 and its role (air-superiority/air dominance) by very definition it would have to be well armed. Five weeks prior to MAKS 2011, the T-50 was demonstrated to the then Indian Defence Minister and senior IAF staff, and Pogosyan gave an interview.

    Interestingly, he talked about the design philosophy behind the T-50 and gave intimations as to what the Russian air force/Ministry of Defence requirements were. Iirc, one of his key phrases was (paraphrasing) : “the PAK-FA is a fundamentally different aircraft to those that preceded it……it is designed to remain undetected and engage the opposing targets at the greatest possible distances“. Given the huge Russian land border it would have to patrol- it certainly has the fuel capacity, so why take risks with low weapons load?

    Aside from accounting for the already mentioned relatively low BVR Pks, the very function of ‘air dominance/superiority’ demands a significant load to engage multiple targets whilst being in-theatre/loitering for the greatest possible time-on-station, it will be net-centric after all.

    Also, at around the time the design for the PAK-FA was being conceived, the Russian government was enjoying a boom time rolling about in petro-dollars. This gave the Russians from the top down a sense of restored pride after the dark and humiliating years of the 1990s. Although the most pressing needs were (and remain) a rebalancing of the economy away from the natural-resources primary sector, it was not lost on the russian strategy planners and the political/military elite how important and valuable such scarce resources are.

    Hence, a period of nationalistic chest-beating ensued with a primary focus being the resource rich Arctic particularly as the melting ice was increasing accessibility. A flag was planted near the North Pole and, more importantly, territorial claims were made over the area extending to the Lomonosov Ridge. As early as 2001 Putin had described the urgent need for Russia to “secure it strategic, economic, scientific and defence interests in the arctic”.

    So whilst it is more likely that RuAF PAK-FAs will meet the PLAAF FLANKER horde in the east and maybe skirmish with Norwegian F-35s, it is not lost on Russian planners (and PAK-FA’s designers*) that the T-50 may, conceivably, meet its greatest and most formidable adversary- the F-22, one day over the Arctic.

    This is just a long-winded way of saying it’ll be 3+3+1+1. 😉

    *Imho, this is why the T-50’s front elevation at least, will have a RCS comparable to the F-22.

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2319845
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    EDIT: Or a pair of any KAB-500 series GBU if fitted with folding tails – with a 1.0×0.6m bay cross section the sky’s the limit 😮

    Not an ideal angle, but if you can imagine 2 R-77s fitting abreast in this MiG-’35’ pic (between the engine nacelles) then 3 abreast (or 2 KAB-500s abreast) in the T-50 shouldn’t be an issue (see formation pic):

    http://www.deagel.com/library1/medium/2008/m02008032100027.jpg

    http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/100th-Anniversary-of-RuAF/i-kjnGvsC/0/O/100letpart206.jpg

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2320432
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    Indeed, but as others have said – given the size of PAK-FA and the expense it has/will incur just with the airframe build/maintenance – a few more missiles are trivial in cost and small in relative volume.

    I think the pic of the S-37 with two launch mechanisms in no way equates to PAK-FA having such a permanent configuration (as flateric mentioned), though probably for A2G munitions. If you take into account Pks as debated @ length on the other thread, then it would be prudent to have 6 MRAAMS, despite efforts to increase Pks by developing dual band, active/passive seekers as currently undertaken by AGAT.

    Many people here (including Trident & emile) and elsewhere have done the measurements and have concluded that 3 R-77 types abreast could be easily accommodated. Given that space comes as a premium, in this design in particular, then that assumption (which I support) is likely to be proven correct.

    Al-41F indeed. Around 20 of them were built, and apparently most of them are still stored, somewhere. But it had miserable length of life, and never achieved the trust it was supposed to achieve.

    The then Saturn-Lyulka plant @ Rubinsk ‘loaned’ MiG the two AL-41Fs for the 2 flights, as the Russian government had long since ceased funding the installation was entirely privately funded. They removed them and took them back upon completion of the demonstration flights.

    http://vitaly.livejournal.com/194923.html

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2322418
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    $11 billion to customize a PAK-FA into a FGFA? I wish they’d spend three fourths of that money on the AMCA instead and get full ownership of the IP they developed.

    It now appears the $11bn figure is a 50:50 share when the contract is signed later this year/early next.
    I presume the Russians will use their share to further the RuAF’s PAK-FA EMD, whilst developing India’s FGFA/PMF in parallel.

    Also:

    The broad scope of bilateral cooperation during the joint project covers the design and development of the PMF, its production and joint marketing to [third-party] countries.”

    http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_08_21_2012_p01-01-487983.xml&p=1

    Despite talk of the 2-seater, I don’t think it’ll materialise.

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2322644
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    With such deep layout, you can imagine a triple rotary launcher on each side.

    So you could carry 3 long range AAM in the aft bay and 6 MRAAM in the front bay + 2 IR missiles.

    Nic

    Yeah, I’m all for revolving w/bays- 12 MRAAMS!! YEEEEEHAAAA!!!

    Is this you FalconDude? (on the right).

    http://www.fact.co.uk/media/1167373/the_good__the_bad_and_the_ugly_2.jpg

    http://spotters.net.ua/file/?id=67889&size=large
    http://russianplanes.net/id84116
    http://spotters.net.ua/file/?id=67900&size=large

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2324543
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    No one asks to co-own IPR developed by Russia. But, to suggest that Russia can go on and sell the PAK-FA to others without involving a partner who has paid for R&D implies that the PAK-FA is solely Russian and that the FGFA will be solely an Indian variant. And if that is the case, then the Indians should then pay money only for R&D into those parts/equipment/software that the FGFA will be equipped with. The rest of the PAK-FA will anyway be licensed and a license fee can be paid for those.

    Once the contracts are signed, the details will emerge. But imho, the FGFA is not only the version tailor made for the IAF, but will become the definitive export version. The Russkies will not be exporting the RuAF version (PAK-FA) to anyone (even the IAF’s FGFA will have a variant of the Stage 2 engine) so the Indian investment, currently reported as $11bn, is to develop the PAK-FA into the FGFA and it matters not whether the FGFA is built in Russia or exclusively in India, as the Indians will receive significant royalties/return on their investment.

    Think of where the F-22 would be today if the US Govt. had allowed, or LM had been open to, a similar programme with Japan, Australia, Israel etc.

    Also, aside from the Indigenous systems for the FGFA, India is being courted for many defence-related ‘technology partnerships’ especially with western defence firms, you can expect any relevant systems to migrate to the FGFA which will only serve to increase its export appeal- building on the customisation approach pioneered by Sukhoi with the Su-30MKI.

    There may also be provisions for India to become a maintenance, repair and overhaul hub for export customers. Crossover tech. and cost benefits for ‘Super-30’ upgrades has already been mentioned.

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2327412
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    I’m wondering whether it’s better that the deal be scuppered after all.

    From the looks of it the FGFA will be no more than a T-50MKI, that is, a PAK-FA with some Indian components. Far from the ‘Indo-Russian fighter’ that was and still is being advertised. I don’t even think we’ll get any co-ownership of the IP in order for joint marketing and international sales.:(

    R & D involvement? Nearly all the critical parts are already being developed by Russia and are likely to be what the IAF eventually goes for. Design, engines & propulsion, radars, IRST and EW suite, datalinks, all the weapons, even the construction materials originate in Russia! There isn’t much scope for HAL/DRDO here beyond maybe the cockpit and some Computer/navigation equipment (similar to the MKI). I suppose they can throw in the TOT and licenced production for HAL(But probably no re-export licences though; this ‘Indo-Russian’ fighter is a lot more Russian than Indian after all:rolleyes:) and call it indigenous development. I doubt it’d enhance their technological competence a lot more than the MKI deal did.:mad:

    Aside from the level of TOT I can’t really see how joining the F-35 program would have been too different.

    You cannot “co-own” IPRs if your input for particular systems was zero. This may be a de facto grandiose licensed co-production agreement, but so what? Don’t you think the Indian Aerospace industry will derive any benefit from what, by all accounts, will be indigenous (licensed) production of the airframe?
    Even if many components like the engines and radar will continue to be sourced from Russia, this is a whole different world to the licensed assembly of kits like the Su-30MKI. Take note of the significant differences of the respective IOC dates- that’s for a reason, the sums are huge- for a reason.

    Do you think the Italians will derive similar benefits by having an F-35 assembly line? Obviously not. Even worse do you think the US would be ready to open an Indian production line for the F-35, if they selected it? Definitely not! Remember, the US is not happy to even share source code with the JSF’s Tier 1 partners, notwithstanding ‘partner’ owned EMD aircraft will remain in the US!

    Also, do you not see any convergence between T-50, ‘Super-30’ and AMCA?
    What useful stuff could you learn and apply from the F-35? (remember F-15K and Tiger Eye scandal). That’s right, zero.

    Obviously, things will become much clearer once the deal is signed, so be patient. For soon it’ll be TATA LCA, Привет PAK-FA (pun intended).

    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2328442
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    Yeah, Pogosyan let slip as long ago as Farnborough 2010 that the two types would differ in source code/software only. He would have had a good idea of where the FGFA was headed, irrespective of media speculations.

    Evidently the Indian side has finally dropped the 2-seater in return for more R&D involvement and more ToT, and the Russian side gets a major funding stream for the EMD phase as this deal ramps-up the production infrastructure/technology investments in both countries. Which is good.

    Better to wait for more official and concrete details as timelines look a bit skewed, though I do anticipate HAL and IAF pilots participating in flight testing @ Lipetsk when state trials commence there. At least the budget is starting to look a bit more realistic and there may be hints of concurrency Indo-Russian style (but definitely not LM style!). Together with the ‘Super 30’, R&D concessions/ToT looks like a determined effort by the Russians not to lose market share in the World’s hottest defence market (and traditional ally).

    Sheesh, I just hope ActionJackson’s ‘stealth charts’ don’t yet scupper this deal! 🙁

    in reply to: F-35 News thread. Part Deux #2328445
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    Rant over 🙂

    I just thought 3 ‘gold medals’ @ the Nunn-McCurdy Olympics is a big deal, but K.

    in reply to: F-35 News thread. Part Deux #2329113
    Jō Asakura
    Participant
    in reply to: RuAF News and Development Thread 9 #2329748
    Jō Asakura
    Participant
    in reply to: Pak-Fa news thread part 20 #2330369
    Jō Asakura
    Participant

    I hope you aren’t really suggesting that they can’t figure out if those missiles will fit without actually physically sticking one in there.

    I think it is safe to assume that the designers of a new fighter jet are capable of figuring out how big a bay they will need to accommodate a specific missile, including any necessary hardware.

    The Russkies have been using Siemens PLM including ‘Teamcentre & NX’ for well over a decade now. Here shown @ NAPO for the Su-34:

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6113/30348152.12e/0_63fef_6316fe10_orig

Viewing 15 posts - 721 through 735 (of 1,223 total)