Glossy brown glossy…
‘Red 04’

…and cockpit of (pre-production) ‘white’ 48:
“I can see the road to Damascus from here!”

I may have missed this, but there is genuine evidence that both these aircraft are so expensive that the competition is in tatters?
The true cost will approach $20bn that much has been acknowledged by officials already, I don’t see Rupee depreciation being much of an issue because it would have been factored in, besides it has been within a tight range with the Euro for around 18 months now (currently @ INR 65.13) but the Indian Govt. would ideally like to see it nearer INR 60 @ contract signing stage in late Spring (unless for some absurd reason this contract will be priced in US$). A reminder that MMRCA is deemed a critical national security acquisition to address force depletion.
It appears the Indian MoD is trying to wring the maximum possible from the two parties @ the 11th hour, and who could blame them? They’re well aware their decision will quite possibly forever doom the loser on the international market.
According to ACM Browne the announcement is imminent -and he’s most likely to be in the know, after waiting several years what’s a few more days (or possibly hours)?
Be patient.

Given that one of the above nations is de facto insolvent and two others are staring into the economic abyss, bringing India on board as a partner for nEUROn not only makes financial sense for the Royale house of Dassault but would probably sway the MMRCA deal for the Rafale…..and that coming from a Typhoon supporter!
Gasifier of изделия 129 in 2011 was already tested on a CIAM testing stand?
No, that’s referring to constructing a test stand/rig for the combustion chamber of the ‘Izdeliye 129’.
Interesting find JSTCVW09CD. It appears to be quite a well informed piece on NPO Saturn’s R&D during 2011- is it a shareholder’s synopsis?. This is only the second time the Izdeliye 30 has been mentioned (it was referred to as the ‘Type 30’ by Saturn’s General Designer and First Deputy General Director Chepkin in April last year).
Although Chepkin claimed the ‘Type 30’ had already flow, your article refutes that claim, more likely he was mis-quoted/reported and probably meant components of the ‘Type 30’ have been flight tested. Interestingly, the T-10M b/n ‘710’ has been quite active since last Autumn.
Imho, the ‘Izdeliye/Type 30’ is the engine selected by the IAF for the FGFA and is a de-rated ‘Izdeliye 129’ (Chief of the IAF has already categorically stated it will not be the 117). If RuAF PAK-FA’s are to achieve IOC ~2018, then in all likelihood they’ll do so with the ‘Type 30’ and ‘Izdeliye 129’ will follow later.
As this also increases the required pitch up moment for rotation on take-off there must have been a fairly compelling reason to do so. The F-35 being single engine and stealthy (i.e. no way to have the retracted hook protrude beyond the nozzle for greater separation from the landing gear) doesn’t help either.
I guess they could design a telescopic hook & dampener system, which would avoid a structural, Cg & load-bearing redesign?
‘F-35 JSF Concurrency QLR, November 29th, 2011’:
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/274217/dod-quick-look-ahern-report.pdf
…make that tailfins:
The ever-increasing cost of the MMRCA order, and the Indian economy’s pronounced ‘soft patch’ of 2011 means this is why Eurofighter will win:
Writing on behalf of Germany, the U.K., Italy and Spain, Merkel said a successful Eurofighter bid would mark a “deeper technological and economic partnership,” between India and the four countries, a chancellery spokesman said today in Berlin.
Strategic (i.e. economic- particularly inward capital investment) considerations are now a major factor, alongside technical merit and L1, this will be an opportunity too good to miss for PM Manmohan Singh’s beleaguered government.
Congressional Research Service report on the F-35 from April 2011:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL30563.pdf
GAO Criticism of F-35 Program
An April 7, 2011, report from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that although restructuring had helped the F-35 program overall, some specific issues continued to lag. Most notably, GAO cited:
• The maturity of the F-35’s design: “The JSF program still lags in achieving
critical indicators of success expected from well-performing acquisition
programs. Specifically, the program has not yet stabilized aircraft designs—
engineering changes continue at higher than expected rates long after critical
design reviews and well into procurement.”21• Software development: “Officials underestimated the time and effort needed to develop and integrate the software.. each of the remaining three blocks—providing full mission systems and warfighting capabilities—are now projected to slip between 2 to 3 years compared to the 2006 plan.”22
• Testing: “The JSF program established 12 clearly-stated goals in testing,
contracting, and manufacturing for completion in calendar year 2010. It had
mixed success, achieving 6 goals and making varying degrees of progress on the other 6.”23 As a consequence of the failure to meet test goals, contractor Lockheed Martin forfeited $28 million of a possible $35 million in award fees for 2010.24Three major technical issues emerged for the F-35B.
The first was premature wear on hinges for the auxiliary inlet door feeding the F-35B’s lift fan, which caused the F-35B fleet to be grounded in September 2010. A technical fix was in place by January 2011.
Second, cracks were discovered in a bulkhead of an F-35B used for fatigue testing “after the airplane had been subjected to the equivalent of about 1,500 hours of flight time out of a total 16,000 hours planned.” Prime contractor Lockheed Martin has redesigned the bulkhead, and“‘(o)ther locations of similar design are also being assessed,’ company spokesman John Kent said in an e-mailed statement Jan. 11.”27 The aluminum bulkhead is unique to the F-35B; “F-35A and F-35C bulkheads are still made of titanium, as are similar bulkheads on the F-22.”28
Third, the driveshaft, lift-fan clutch, and actuator for the F-35B’s roll-post nozzles will be redesigned following discovery that the driveshaft contracts and expands more than expected, and that the other components experience more heat than anticipated during flight operations.29
Unit Costs
As of December 31, 2010, the F-35 program had a program acquisition unit cost (or PAUC, meaning total acquisition cost divided by the 2,456 research and development and procurement aircraft) of about $154.4 million in constant FY2010 dollars, and an average procurement unit cost (or APUC, meaning total procurement cost divided by the 2,443 production aircraft) of $132.8 million in constant FY2010 dollars.
Exactly, like a whole new aircraft and it would presumably lose efficiency with the F414. But you never know, such a hypothetical F-35J version might just spur a domestic F-35D version. I just don’t see it happening. And the F136 just isn’t coming back.
…and the twin engined F-35 would look like?……AMCA anyone?
Interestingly, Osamu Fujimura, Japan’s chief cabinet secretary, announced last Tuesday that a decades-old ban on arms exports would be relaxed, opening the way for Japanese companies to participate in the international development and manufacture of advanced weapon systems.
This long awaited move could have far reaching implications for Japan’s struggling domestic defence sector with foreign contractors hoping to share the increasing costs and technical challenges of developing military platforms and will bring welcome relief for many hundreds of smaller manufacturers vital to Japan’s military aerospace manufacturing sector, especially with some arguing that the F-35 purchase could trigger the collapse of Japan’s defence industry.
According to ‘The Keidanren’ (Japan’s biggest business lobby), hailed the long-debated relaxation as an “epoch-making” development. Domestic contractors such as Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries have formidable manufacturing clout (the latter has already indirectly participated in the Indian Navy’s IAC programme through a joint venture in design, construction and management techniques with Cochin Shipyard LTD).
So the question is whether the Japanese F-35A purchase is merely a stop-gap, as ATD-X development is still going ahead?- either way, I’m sure India would love to see investment & participation of MHI et al in the AMCA.
You can cast doubt on whatever you think, but the reality is that my background was naturally part of my clearance process. No clearance mans no job in the area I am in. Its simple really. I’ve been quite clear about having no involvement or influence on JSF and yet for some bizarre reason you have taken the path that anyone remotely seen as endorsing or supporting anything associated with JSF as fair game or implied vsted interest
There’s this dude called Richard Dawkins and he’s a world renowned geneticist and biologist, but most people will recognise him as a staunch atheist. This guy has picked up the mantle of string theory and the multiverse (which is, incidentally, the last bastion of the atheist) in an effort to rubbish the existence of a Creator or Supreme Being.
What irritates me greatly is that this guy trots the World and booms with authority about things he knows next to nothing about (I for one am fairly confident I know much more than him about quantum mechanics/field theory, relativity, classical physics etc. though I’m not a scientist/researcher).
Yet using his status as a professor and author to sell string theory and multiverse which is based on theoretical mathematical models untestable in the ‘real world’ (not to mention reaching a dead-end after countless twists and turns over the last 30 years), is grossly disingenuous.
He is dictating a baseless fallacy to pander to his sense of superiority and status that makes most physicists cringe. His hubris has culminated in his greatest misjudgement- it doesn’t matter what he himself believes in so vigorously, what matters is what reasonably intelligent people can deductively reason given the relevant information & data.
You Sir have directly emulated this fundamentally flawed approach with the F-35.
Well the current Russian State Programme for Armaments to 2020 (GPVP -2020) is pegged @ 2.8% of GDP, and negotiations for the next one should get pretty interesting:
The CEBR predicts that by 2020, the four Brics will be the 2nd (China), 4th (Russia), 5th (India) and 6th (Brazil) largest economies, with only the US (1st) and Japan (3rd) ahead.
Source: FT.com 26/12/11
Happy New Year, ख़ुश नया साल, 明けましておめでとう, С Новым годом!!
You’re so stoopid LowObservable!! The titanium tubs on the Swiss hornets are in case they fly into a mountain- of which there are many [in Switzerland], or so I’m reliably informed…..and fyi the titanium tub optional extra on the RAAF F-35s only increases their cost by $50K, to $68,050,000. G’Day!!
You are mixing up things…
UAE development requirements are very specific while in Indian case the marketed rafale will be virtually identical to the french one. Given the modification the UAE asked and the implied price no wonder France was dragging its feets.
And one cannot ignore Dassault’s reputation in India :
Oh, really?
The French government did accumulate a 46 per cent stake Dassault. This holding was subsequently passed on to EADS when the Franco-German aerospace group was established a decade ago. But Dassault still retains complete control of management and decision making. Indeed, it competes directly with EADS both in combat aircraft and the new business of drones. It also outmanoeuvred EADS to acquire a big stake in Thales where it now has industrial if not financial control given the government’s larger stake in the defence electronics group. And for all its difficulties to export the Rafale, its flagship combat aircraft, the slowdown in its Falcon corporate jet market, and the restructuring required at Thales, the group is financially sound and sitting on a €3bn cash pile.
Yet the government, Dassault’s single largest customer, is becoming increasingly irritated by Dassault’s continued failure to export the Rafale as well as its lack of progress in instigating consolidation in the French defence industry by merging parts of Thales with Safran , the aero-engine and aerospace components group.
Dassault’s stubborn negotiating stance in export markets was recently exposed in Abu Dhabi where France was hoping to clinch the Rafale’s first foreign sale. But Abu Dhabi is now also looking at the rival Eurofighter Typhoon or a US alternative because it said Dassault offered “uncompetitive and unworkable” terms. And this week, Dassault suffered another setback when Switzerland opted for the Swedish Gripen rather than its Rafale.
What must be all the more galling for Paris is that Dassault itself does not seem overly concerned at remaining simply a domestic Rafale supplier. France has committed to equip its armed forces with 180 Rafale fighters between now and 2021 and to increase the number to 286 after that. It has also agreed to accelerate the purchase of these aircraft in the absence of export orders to keep Rafale production lines ticking over. So there is no real urgency for Dassault to win foreign sales.
The Dassault succession could thus eventually provide Paris with a chance to gain a stronger voice in this independent-minded family concern. Mr Edelstenne turns 75 in January 2013 and under company statutes will have to step down. Of course, the statutes could be amended to allow him to stay on but it is unlikely EADS with its 46 per cent stake will agree.
In any event, for all his lingering doubts, most people believe Mr Dassault has made up his mind to keep the empire in the family. His son Olivier certainly looks the favourite. After all, he has a pilot’s licence and flies corporate jets. More importantly, the influential family matriarch, Nicole, is understood to have ruled in favour of a family succession. Balzac all over again?
Source: FT.com, 01/12/11.
Mr. Dassault doesn’t seem overly concerned on winning the MMRCA, that’s why he’ll lose.
Also, I don’t understand how you could consider a political affirmation (of the highest possible level) of “welcoming India as a fifth partner [to the Eurofighter consortium]” as a desperate measure and sign of weakness. Au contraire, monsieur.