One is wondering. India seem to be keen to integrate Meteor onto their MK1s. I wonder if they would be interested in integrating Typhoon’s HMSS, too? If possible.
I don’t know about HMSS, India (Samtel) already license produces TopSight-I (formerly known as TopOwl). As for Meteor, if (imho, when) EADS wins the tender, they’ll be integrating Meteor on absolutely everything!!
Hey kiddo,
have you got any idea what you are talking about.
There are airplanes that is flying in the sky in this moment that I have had a hand in its design. can you say the same?
so I think you are way out of your league on this one.
Wow!! That was a really technical and engaging engineering response from the ‘invisible hand’ of the Chinese aerospace industry. Belittling anyone and everyone who raises concerns when presented with stark evidence of counterfeiting/IPR violations, isn’t going to endear you to anyone.
It’s the sort of response I’d expect from the departmental janitor.
Fyi, my education has little to do with my profession (though the advanced calculus sometimes comes in handy when we get software glitches).
The different Cg, new LERX, enlarged wing area/control surfaces and adjustments to FBW code must have been quite a breeze for you, huh?
Awaiting your critical design review, don’t worry- I won’t divulge any state secrets you’re privy to on the J-15.
BTW, welcome to 1986, Kiddo.
No, just that India has finally acknowledged that a price set several years ago & which was unrealistic even then has to be discarded, & reality must be faced.
It’s the upper ceiling for 189 fighters.
Its a prerequisite for stealth aircraft that the fit of panels and alignment are to a fine tolerance.
Thats exactly the sort of technology that India would be looking for in the future (JSF adopted it too).
Yeah particularly for AMCA and their indigenous UCAV. I’ve said it before, India is looking for a strategic industrial partner and the member nations of EADS can deliver much more than Dassault. The ‘difficulty of dealing with multi nations’ argument- is a none starter.
you will need a microscope to find left in the next parliament. there may be a couple from kerala but that’s it. without bengal left can’t be a power.
I was under the impression that Indian communists were even more capitalist than their chinese counterparts!!
It will be before the end of this fiscal, afaIk it has to be before the end of December otherwise the bids expire and will have to be re-submitted.
I agree with Jw on the build quality, with the plywood one being my favourite.
In other news, a meeting @ the G20 summit in France between PM Singh and Sarkozy was ultimately cancelled despite being rescheduled twice, the details of the bid(s) had already been communicated to the competitor’s governments by that time…
…and now Taygibay is leading a charge by peppering BR forum with Rafale porn shots…where’s the humanity!?
As far as build quality is concerned and having sat in both aircraft and seeing them very close there is no real visible difference between the two.
I think Jw means the Eurofighter incorporates Laser and Electron Beam Welding techniques incorporated on F-22/35. Whereas Rafale has ‘zig-zag’ patterns @ structural hotspots.
If the term ‘marginal’ is true and accurate, then it could be ‘MERDE’ for Dassault!
:rolleyes:
or.
sometimes Cheap dig is all you got.
You are aware that scale effects are minimised by using models that do not differ in size from the prototype more than necessary aka physical similarity and dimensional analysis.
By very careful measurement (e.g. laser) for downscaling, the inherent problems of discrepancy of Reynolds number (whereby laminar flow exists in the model system although the flow in the prototype is turbulent) also relative departures of Froude, Weber or Mach numbers- can be avoided.
Calculations of inertia and pressure forces will also be simplified and porting your uber-accurate dimension maps to CFD and FEA saves a huge amount of time, effort and money.
The structural integrity of the Su-33 will not be difficult to calculate once the spar structure & layout are emulated for a static tester and composition of various alloys already known (titanium & high-strength aluminium alloys) they probably stripped down an Su-27SK for comparative analysis.
I’m sure FBW software wouldn’t pose that much of a problem for the 611 institute after the J-10.
I guess the greatest financial burden would be the capital expenditure for machine tooling and the greatest technical challenge- the engine……as you very well know :D.
What are you saying? EF can´t win L1, but will be chosen for other reasons, not causing too much problems as long as it comes in under the base-line?
My guess is (as alluded by Jwcook) the IAF has been offered the ‘partner discount’ of 7% which means the difference may only be marginal, hence the associated costs on spares, tooling, maintenance and operating costs per hour in terms of fuel, manpower, maintenance and lifecycle (6,000hrs/40yrs) is included in L1.
ToT and up to 50% offsets will now be calculated.
Imho, it would be very difficult to beat EADS on the combined package.
The $20bn figure probably includes the optional 63 (exercised), this figure has probably only recently been leaked- with the Americans realising the true enormity of this deal hence LM’s 11th hour mischief.
According to the FT this morning, an Indian MoD official has informed them that the defence ministry revised up its initial $11bn estimate after reviewing bids from the Eurofighter Typhoon consortium and France’s Dassault, to $20bn.
Allez Eurofighter!!
Hey look everyone! I can do cheap digs too!
A cheap dig is the most appropriate response to your so-called ‘technical’ and historical ramblings trying to justify (and apparently celebrating) violation of IPs and outright counterfeiting.
This post was sponsored by Microsoft.
Re: visibility, I don’t think this is a ‘UB’:
“I think India should export cheaper, indigenously produced Salyut AL-31FPs to China for Shenyang to ‘reverse engineer’!”

Once the sealed bids are known, the Indian Ministry of Defence will start calculating the life-cycle cost of the aircraft, the acquisition cost and military “offset” considerations. These offsets include the amount of technology that European companies will disclose to India and the share of investment they will bring to India’s defence industries if they are chosen.
The impending decision has not prevented the US making a last-ditch effort to promote some of its more modern aircraft technology to India. This week the Pentagon told Congress it was prepared to provide information to India about the F-35 Lightning II, a so-called fifth-generation fighter produced by Lockheed Martin.
European defence companies have expressed concern the US might try to short-circuit the bidding process with a new offer outside the terms of the competition.
FT 03/11/11 (subscription only).
Hmmm…I wonder if the Americans have been up to underhand sneakiness since losing out in April (EADS & Dassault better check their PCs and servers, huh? :p).
Ya don’t think they’d try to usurp the Europeans before the month is out! NAAAAH, surely not…
Either way, roll on tomorrow!
I wonder if they’ve been flying @ night/pre-dawn?
As of 16/08/11 both examples had logged 84 flights, then if you assume 1 flight per day @ MAKS, would still leave ~10 flights outstanding to attain 100 today.
Iirc, only one flight pic was taken post MAKS.
Prior to assuming his post, ACM Browne would’ve had a classified, very detailed briefing on the PAK-FA/FGFA from military, civilian and industry experts (both Russian and Indian)- and I’ll bet my mortgage he didn’t refer to a retired tank man with an obscure blog.
I am, however, enjoying the 11th hour F-35/MMRCA mischief-making from LM, like it’s gonna somehow detract from the countdown to November 24th.
Congratulations to HAL on a major engineering milestone, I look forward to them repeating the feat with the MMRCA this decade and also with the (2-seater) FGFA and AMCA.
Speaking of which, SAAB takes a step towards the AMCA (?)