Nick reading a lot of the articles that come from that website one can clearly make out that these dudes are shelling out a lot of opinions mixed in with some facts , and personally i meyself (and many others) dont give a damn about these EDITORS opinions cuz they have been so stupid in the past . its just like going over reading Kopp but much much less informed.

Ok, but the same can be said of most sources available on the net, including even Janes which at times (not always) is bloody atrocious despite being paid while SP is free. Saving grace I think.

There is a niche market for such things , although i believe that the market by’n’large is movin forward in that direction that you mention however there is always a market for this sort of thing . Look at the countries that are looking at cheap used f-16’s , f-5’s , upgrading 3.5 or 4 th gen fighters , these countries are valid markets for these chinese products furthermore you can always do more with them like PAF is doing with some european tech. in the avionics departments , for some countries like PAF getting a fighter with practically no hold or bar is of great strategic importance , not only does it provide no.s it gives them strategic independence (home production line) and the ability to use multiple western vendors to improve upon the product which is something they dont get with the F-16’s . Is pakistan wanting to use the j series as a 4..5 gen top notch fighter?? probably not , what they are wanting is a capable 4th gen fighter with the ability to be upgraded and serve as the bulk of the fleet , for them this is the best aircraft for this role period . These defence technologies also serve a strategic interest of China , they can form alliances and hand these things out at a subsidized cost and secure key international parterships . just imagine the energy security they might get from importing latest Air Defence equipment to Iran in 2015 or exporting the JXX to iran etc in 2025 etc

Yeah, but I think they should have tried for something higher…frankly, the JF-17, F-22P and Al Khalid all appear too less to face off for the future. The highest end aircraft in the PAF is going to be the F-16 Block 50/2 but it doesnt say much when your opponent will be operating a whole lot of stuff better than this. Am thinking the PAF by virtue of its equipment choices has locked itself into a very defensive role (Air to Air) whereas in A2G at least, thanks to the F-16 PGM package they have some choice.

Some of DRDO’s avionics products

The Core Avionics computer is interesting. Instead of a single processor running all functions, they went for a federated approach relying on multiple high speed RISC processors (486 DX4’s probably from Intel) to run the Weapons delivery/ nav processing, others for MFD output, and HUD output as well as other microcontrollers for the Bus. The design is derived from the Mission Computer and the Display processors developed for the MKI, and they have recombined the separate functionalities into one ATR unit.

This was very interesting- “Mission planning workstation and field data
loader”. Presumably for the new Jaguar and MiG-27 upgrades.

From the engineering point of view- – KADECU: Digital electronic control unit for engine for the Kaveri engine, The unit has been successfully tested after being mounted on the engine at 125 ambient. FADEC units have to be extremely rugged given their operating temperature and vibration/ shock issues, developing this must have been a pain.

They appear to be leery of revealing their newer projects- googling shows some EW pods, jammers, newer RWRs and Open Architecture computers. The specs for the Radar processor are also left out, perhaps deliberately.

Perhaps Harry can comment on the newer projects?

Being an athiest my interpretation of something being a miracle as being unbelieveable. This is no miracle… just good engineering and good design.

Oh ok, thats not what I am saying.

Why? If that were true then why do they put so many cluster munitions into cluster bombs? I mean putting 644 munitions into a single Smerch 300mm unguided artillery rocket must be really complicated… why dont they just put in 500, or 400?

False analogy. The issue is of tandem charges not cluster munitions, different items required for different threats.

3 warheads are needed to do the job. If it was a miracle then how could they produce it in numbers.

And where have they started producing it in numbers?

It is my understanding that a miracle is a one off exception. He has already stated that several other western weapons use multiple HEAT warheads, one assumes they work without deforming each other as that would make their inclusion into the design rather pointless otherwise… so actually multiple HEAT charges is quite common relatively.

Multiple HEAT warheads in ATGMs yes. A triple HEAT warhead in a tank fired shell, no. There are no assumptions to be made- from the POV of manufacturibility, and repeatability this will be a severe challenge.

So it costs money. Solid shot rounds aren’t free either… are they miracles too?

Did I say they were miracles? JEH expressed polite skepticism about the manufacturing aspect, disagree if you must, but you are going off on a crusade here.

Single Shot ATGMs are by their nature expensive single shot rounds, we are talking of relatively inexpensive, to be mass produced HEAT rounds here, whose warhead design is more complicated than that of a single shot round!

Ignorance is bliss. Count the number of rounds in a Russian or Soviet tank. Over half will be plain HE FRAG. Of the remainder more than half will be HEAT and the final quarter of the overall ammo load will be APFSDS. The Russians actually prefer HEAT to APFSDS.

Have you personally counted these rounds? When was the last time you were in the Soviet Army to say “ignorance”? Doesnt your knowledge only come from books , as well? 🙂

For existing targets the current HEAT rounds is good- ask any informed ex SU/ R’n tanker on russian forums. To get to the point—

The HEAT round is a solution looking for a problem, and against heavy armour it will do no better (if lucky) than the latest generation of Heavy Soviet ATGMs which without top attack, cannot take on frontal armour either. So whats the point in spending money on THIS, when there are huge lacunae in their current APFSDS round lineup, design and production of which is firmly trailing the US, Germany, UK, Israel by a generation and more!

More importantly, these rounds dont fit the most essential need- to boost the exportability of Russian tanks!! If you have a truly modern KE round, you will have customers lined up for the cheap, heavily armoured, medium weight tanks which can slug it out with NATO heavies which cost double, and many times over in certain logistics. But here, this HEAT round will not address that gap.

So how much do they cost and how does that compare with standard HEAT rounds… or are you just assuming these rounds will be very expensive just because they have one more shaped charge cone than a standard round

.

First, as someone with experience in manufacturing I can assure you that these rounds will be a b!tch to manufacture. You will have to upgrade your equipment, retrain operators, and change the processes PLUS spend more time per round- all these costs add up. The second is that to spread out the costs, you need a substantial production run- there are simply no export customers out there who will want THIS round in lieu of spending it on more necessary KE ones! The present HE rounds themselves are quite capable, add an APARS (for anti infantry) to supplant the older HE-Frag and truly modern KE rounds for anti tank work and you have a capable loadout. In contrast, field obsolete BM series APFSDS (production of which is still unstable), a very modern fancy HEAT round but which cannot still compensate for the above and will it serve the purpose? Russia’s tank building plants, despite their recent “revival” are still tottering- ask Russians about it, and they are not too happy- in such a milieu, its best that they spend their money on eliminating weaknesses first. Later on, they can add fancy gold plated triple HEAT rounds and stuff.

I only ignore the rants of those with chips on their shoulders that believe anything Russian or Soviet must be crap. You don’t fall into that category.

Thank you. For the record, I dont believe anything Russian is necessarily crap. I just disagree about the utility of this round vs the crying need for a truly modern FSAPDS round from Russia which can match the performance of the latest US/ UK ones or better them by far.

THis is new… how many, where? Fixed, mobile?

What?? You missed this??

http://world.guns.ru/machine/predator_minigun.jpg

:p :p

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=411969

SUKHOI-HAL PRINT EMAIL
Su-30 MKI programme on schedule: HAL

BANGALORE, SEPT 3 (PTI)
The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited today said it had not scrapped the initial plans for full indigenisation of Sukhoi fighter aircraft at its facilities in India and said the production of the warplane continued in HAL.

The Bangalore-headquartered HAL dismissed reports over Sukhoi (Su-30 MKI) in a section of the press, quoting a Russian newspaper, as “completely incorrect”.

A HAL statement said “Total technology is getting established in HAL as planned. In order to complete the programme by 2015 instead of 2018, as required by the Indian Air Force, certain components and systems are being procured from Russia. This decision was taken to optimise the investments in HAL”.

It added: “The programme of indigenous production of Su-30 MKI aircraft in HAL is continuing at an accelerated pace as compared to earlier plan”.

Media reports from Russia last week suggested that in a move to save costs and speed up delivery of Sukhoi fighter aircraft, HAL has scrapped initial plans for full indigenisation of the warplane at its facilities in India.

Russia’s `Kommersat’ daily reportedly said an agreement signed recently between Russian arms firm Rosoboronexport and Indian Defence Ministry has changed the timeframe of the completion of USD 3.5 billion contract for the licensed production of 140 Su-MKI by HAL.

Good point, what radars do the Mirages use? Are they BVR Active AAM compatible?

Meanwhile, interesting news about the indian industry & its growing design ability..

Design for 32-m antenna for ‘Chandrayaan’ ready

Bangalore, Sept. 13 (UNI): The state-of-the-art 32-metre antenna, to be used for getting signals from the Indian Space Research Organisation’s prestigious project ‘Chandrayaan’ in 2008, has reached the manufacturing stage.

Disclosing this to newspersons here, Dataram Mishra, Managing Director of CADES, a fast growing engineering services company in the country involved in the project, said the design had been approved and ECIL and L and T would jointly develop the antenna in stages, after which complex simulations would be done.

The design for the massive structure involved about nine months and 18 technical engineers, he added, hoping that the antenna would be kept ready well ahead of schedule.

To a question, he said the company would put in efforts to make best use of the tremendous opportunity and potential India had by investing five million US dollars this year and another ten million Dollars by 2008.

The company also had plans to increase its head count from the present 350 to 500 in three months and cross 2,000 by 2008.

Mishra said the company had planned to invest five million US dollars in establishing new off-shore development centres in Bangalore and other locations in the country.

A focussed engineering service company with emphasis on knowledge and innovation, CADES had a global delivery model to provide quality and cost-effective engineering services for industries in India and overseas, especially for aerospace, defence, automotive and manufacturing sectors.

CADES is an Indian company.

So are ECIL and L&T

From that Times hitpiece we have this:

DRDO is not deterred by all this. Holding that the “systems design, aerodynamic configuration design etc of various sub-systems” of Astra have now been completed, DRDO plans to soon conduct “controlled flights” of the missile “from under-slung ground launchers”.

Interesting, I wonder when they plan flight trials.

http://www.jolly-rogers.com/airpower/aim-120/avionics.html

Fired, But Not Forgotten
A misconception about the AIM-120 is that the missile is a pure fire-and-forget missile, much like the AIM-9 Sidewinder. Although the AMRAAM’s active radar-homing seeker does feature this capability, its ability to guide itself in this manner is limited by the distance between itself and the target. Simply put, the small radar located in the missile is not powerful enough to detect and track a target over the ranges at which missile launch typically occurs. At these ranges, the missile requires periodic updates during the flight as to the target’s range and position.

Though not completely autonomous in particular circumstances, the AIM-120 is a vast improvement over its predecessor, the AIM-7 Sparrow. This semi-active radar-homing (SARH) missile required the launch-aircraft’s radar to continuously illuminate the target. The Sparrow then guided itself by following the radar energy reflected by the target aircraft. Should the launch-aircraft fail to keep the aircraft locked on radar, the missile would go astray. Using the AIM-120, the launch-aircraft is free to maneuver or direct attacks against other targets. In addition, the AMRAAM also allows the pilot to direct simultaneous attacks against multiple targets.

A typical engagement starts with the aircraft’s radar detecting and tracking the target. Just prior to launch, the launch aircraft’s fire-control software will download the inertial data for the target to the missile. This provides the AIM-120 with navigation data allowing the AMRAAM’s onboard autopilot to guide the missile to the predicted location of the target. Updates from the launch aircraft provide mid-course corrections to the missile in order to provide the most accurate range and bearing data to the autopilot.

Once the missile has reached the destination indicated by the autopilot, the AIM-120’s onboard radar engages in an active search for the target. Once acquired, the radar will guide the missile the final distance to the target. Because the radar only activates during the terminal phase of the missile’s flight, the target receives little warning. As a result, the opposing pilot has only a few seconds to engage countermeasures and/or begin evasive maneuvers.

In addition to this mode, the AMRAAM is fully capable of directing itself to a point in space from which it will engage its radar to seek out the target. However, without periodic updates there is an increased risk that the missile will be unable to acquire the target because the aircraft will have moved out of the seeker’s scan envelope. Despite the disadvantages, this mode does allow the aircraft to launch an AMRAAM and then disengage from the battle entirely.

Guidance System
The Weapons Guidance Unit (WGU) of the AIM-120 consists of a high powered transmitter-receiver, a low-sidelobe antenna and accompanying servo, an Inertial Reference Unit to aid in autonomous navigation, and frequency processor. The entire package is contained within a sealed environment to protect the delicate equipment from the elements. Signals from the guidance package are transmitted to the steering fins via the fairing running down the airframe. Mounted inside the tail of this fairing is the datalink antenna. Mid-course corrections from the aircraft are fed to the missile’s Inertial Reference Unit via this small antenna.
The AMRAAM’s radar system operates in the 8 to 10 GHz I-band region. Its frequency processor provides the AIM-120 with two detection modes; high PRFs for locating distant targets and medium PRFs, giving the missile a look-down / shoot-down capability against low-flying targets which might otherwise be obscured by the terrain below. Should the target attempt to protect itself with active jamming, the radar is capable of utilizing its medium-PRF mode to provide a “home-on-jam” function.

Fusing System
While capable of detonating on impact, it is rare for a missile to actually come into direct contact with a maneuvering aircraft. As a result, modern air-intercept missiles are equipped with a proximity fuze. Designed to detect an object within the blast-radius of its warhead, the system detonates the warhead and relies on the blast and shrapnel effects of the missile to eliminate the target.
The active-radar proximity fuze of the AIM-120 is located just forward of the 40-pound warhead. It has been reported that the proximity detector is capable of determining where the target is in relation to the missile and then directing the blast and fragmentation pattern in that direction, thus maximizing effectiveness. However, this feature has not been confirmed, nor has the lethality range of the AIM-120’s warhead.

Processing Power
Controlling the entire guidance package, as well as the proximity fuze, navigation, autopilot, and all self-testing features is a single 30MHz microprocessor. This electronic heart of the missile is located just forward of the fuzing system. A series of batteries provide power to the electronics and are located immediately aft of the antenna, surrounded by the transmitter system.

NIce explanation of basic Active AAMs