http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/bbs/p/2006/0522/13555846.html

Official Z-9 flight simulator.

Nice photos, but only the first photo in the FB-7 link (is it a FB-7 sim) is a full all three axis motion flight sim. The remaining appear to be limited ones.

I found pretty easy to learn the Mi-17 panel…and has a lot of switchology..as you call it.

And…uhm…how many buttons does your TV remote control have? Mine has 52 buttons and not every button has one function only. No problems learning the remote control either.

Yes, for high maneuvering combat we will use your remote control example as the best. If everything is perfect with your Mi-17 why are they going glass now?

I can imagine what would happen to a A400 landing in Afghanistan

Kind of amusing how that worked out seeing how they originally thought a Flanker could be produced in India for about half the price of one made in Russia.

The “total price” of a HAL manufactured Sukhoi is to be $ 60 Mln

Now what total price means is anybodys guess, since its definition has not been released and will not be available til audit report comes online

That could also include lifecycle (spares) and munition costs

Also another contributor is high-end machine tool tech that was bled to the PRC over many years —

http://www.christusrex.org/www2/china/Manufacturing/pg1.html
( 2 pages )

Not to mention all of the PLA front companies around the world and industrial espionage.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-17-china-espionage_x.htm

China broadens espionage operations
Posted 5/17/2006 11:57 PM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions | Subscribe to stories like this

Ko-Suen Moo
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

RECENT CONSPIRACY CASES

Federal officials say foreign spying attempts in the USA are increasing. Recent cases include:

•Ko-Suen “Bill” Moo of Taiwan pleaded guilty Wednesday to charges of violating arms export controls and being a covert Chinese agent. Moo conspired with a French broker to sell China AGM-129 advanced cruise missiles, missiles, and helicopter and fighter jet engines.

•Andrew Huang, 59, an exporter from Cromwell, Conn., was indicted May 1 on one federal count of conspiring with Chinese officials to sell $27 million in telecommunications equipment to Iraq from 1999 to 2001.

•Four owner-operators of a Mount Laurel, N.J., business were sentenced May 1 in federal court in Newark after pleading guilty last year to charges that they illegally transferred export-controlled technology used in radar, “smart” weapons, jamming and communications to China. All four are of Chinese origin and are naturalized citizens of the United States. They admitted they falsified shipping documents to conceal the type of the technology they were selling.

•Last July, Iranian businessman Abbas Tavakolian was sentenced to 57 months in prison after pleading guilty to export violations to sell Iran components for F-4 and F-14 fighter jets. Tavakolian sought to buy gunnery systems for the warplanes.

•On Oct. 6, 2004, Ting-Ih Hsu, a naturalized U.S. citizen of Chinese origin, and Hai Lin Nee, a Chinese citizen, were sentenced to three years of probation for false statements. Hsu and Nee falsely labeled computer chips with applications in the Hellfire missile system “transistors” worth about $20.

By John Diamond, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — China is running aggressive and wide-ranging espionage operations aimed at stealing U.S. weapons technology that could be useful against U.S. forces, according to the nation’s top spy-catchers.
U.S. counterintelligence officials have also detected an expansion of spy networks run by Russia, Cuba and Iran targeting the U.S. government and, in the case of Iran, U.S. military technology, according to Timothy Bereznay, assistant director of the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division.

China, however, has emerged as the leading espionage threat, Bereznay and Stephen Bogni, a senior investigator for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), said in separate interviews.

China has “put out a shopping list” of weapons and components it is seeking to arms dealers and middlemen, Bogni said. These middlemen, often ethnic Chinese, operate out of shell companies in the USA, he said. The list includes night-vision gear, radar-evading and radar- and communications-jamming equipment, missile-guidance systems and torpedoes.

On Wednesday, one accused Chinese spy, Taiwanese businessman Ko-Suen “Bill” Moo, pleaded guilty to charges he tried to buy military parts and weapons, including an F-16 fighter jet engine and cruise missiles.
ESPIONAGE: A growing business

ICE officials said Moo attempted to buy from undercover agents an AGM-129 cruise missile, which can carry nuclear warheads 2,300 miles.

The possibility of a U.S.-Chinese military confrontation over Taiwan looms in the background of the espionage, said Ronald Guerin, the FBI’s East Asia section chief.

In a nightmare scenario, China could use U.S. technology to sink a U.S. aircraft carrier positioned to block a Chinese move against Taiwan, Guerin said. “We have to really worry about our technology being used against our (own) warfighter. That’s a losing proposition,” Guerin said. “This is a threat to the national security of the United States.”

A spokesman for the Chinese Embassy did not return a call seeking comment.

Counterintelligence is a highly secret sector of intelligence and law enforcement, involving criminal investigations and classified or sensitive information. Bereznay and other officials said they were willing to discuss it on the record to draw attention to what they regard as an emerging national security threat.

The FBI has arrested 25 Chinese nationals or Chinese Americans in cases involving the targeting of U.S. technology in the past two years, an unprecedented level of espionage compared to prior years, Guerin said. Most of the cases involve alleged theft of sensitive technology. ICE has initiated more than 400 investigations since 2000 involving illicit export of U.S. arms and strategic technology to China, according to agency statistics.

The emerging espionage threat involves business people, trade representatives and academics in the USA ostensibly for legitimate purposes, Bereznay said. Sometimes the technology they target is highly sensitive but not yet classified, requiring the government to prosecute export violations rather than espionage

“Foreign collectors don’t wait until something is classified,” Bereznay said. “They’re targeting it at the R&D (research and development) phase.”

Would you please describe that in detail, what was poorly designed in Mig cockpits? I had never heard similar complains from German, Hungarian, Polish, Czechoslovakian pilots…. thanks

Too much clutter and excess switchology
Poorly designed man machine interface as a result of which “new” pilots had to spend more time learning all the switchology and operating instructions of eqpt, in contrast to western cockpits, which new pilots found more intuitive and practical
On plus side, transitions between MiGs was eased because of common eqpt and placement of pointer instruments
Man machine interface was also dubbed as not as easy to use in contrast to other IAF aircraft of similar vintage such as Jaguar and Mirage

It could be that pilots of countries u are quoting didnt have comparable systems of west to compare with, so they trained to what they had

For IAF, key thing is to transition pilots from 1 to another and back n forth, so detailed studies have been done of MMI in both western n eastern planes

Ok, I agree, but you have to admit this is where your knowledge ends about russian cockpits. Do you know what, where, how the data are displayed on the MFDs in Su-27SM,SKM,Su-30MKK?

Not understanding you here – didnt I say MKK/MKI cockpit are relatively decent?

Also, in regards to newer MK series cockpit, the IAF found that symbology and display etc were too cluttered – they put this to infamiliarity of Russians with western design practise or perhaps standardization with other russian programs
So it was refined

On plus side, some Russian details of data presentation were picked up (got this from email exchange with a person from other forum, will ask him to see if i can post it)

You are missing the point, please try to look at that from my side. The west had flown the Mig-29A with aging avionics and situational awareness from early eighties, thats correct.

I am not talking of the “west”- I am talking of one end user with specific experience of aircraft of a similar generation since I know about that and not necessarily what everyone else felt

Ehm, the only difference I see there are those back-up gauges. So maybe this is all about the “russian cockpit” color which disturbs you most? 🙂

I am talking of the placement of the MFDs, they look like they have been squeezed together into a space not meant for them
The piccie u posted was better

Vympel didnt both Ram. and RA cooperate for the MKI program?

Those MFDs are really arranged in a messed up manner
Dunno but Russias approach to ergonomics for its own AF a.c still leaves a lot to be desired 🙁