Nick_76I think what Flex is saying is without a photo ofthe 757 flying trough a window…it must be a missile.
so…
Witnesses are lying.
Anyone who found airpline debris is lying.
Airline is lying.
The FAA and NTSB are lying.That about sum it up?
Seems about right.
Nick_76Let me ask you a different question. What have you provided at all that you call a proof?
Exactly, nothing we provide could be proof in your eyes. So whats the point.
Nick_76More star49 speak
Ruaf CinC is Pilot of Su-30. and he is now test fliying Su-34. u are comparing airforce which has 500 Flankers with airforce of MIG-21s. it is pretty hilarious. There are more upgraded Su-27SM/MIG-31/Su-34/Su-24/MIG-29SM/Su-25
when RuAF have all that, why should they buy Su-30? Big hole in your theory, and claims, who u now going to blame?
big choice for 5th Generation? kindly look around the world who can make actually make 5th generation.:p Certain things u cant buy with money. and neither u have science nor the technical base for 5th generation. It will be like saying u can built B787/A350.
nobody sez india’ll make whole pak-fa, but this u dont understand while you keep doing bla bla bla.
Israel at most have one external jammer. which by this time is probably obsolete as India contacted long time ago. the rest of the planes are same.
if this is all you know, no wonder u r so slow! theres much more to the israeli gear in the MKI, but forget all that and go beddy bye bye, since your lack of knowledge would make a sane man cry!
I have yet to see any major technology transfer from India to Russia in any field. if u know anything u would nt be asking fro RD-33 license 7 years after AL-31 license.
why would india transfer tech to russia, when no deals have been signed, are you simply so blind?
u are mistaken in India. India simply does not have budget surplus like Russia nor stablization fund. U have very long way to go to reach to that status.
india is hardly perfect, but russia does need money for pak-fa, while you keep saying bla-bla-bla!
And u are saying as if IAF have lot of money? limited airforce with limited transport and slow decision making. Just Transport/Bomber fleet is of Ruaf is as big as IAF.
IAF has as much money as its Govt gives, if the Govt says the PAK-FA they will fund, that should be clear as long as you are not full of idealogical mud!
I am waiting for that one day. :p
Alas, till then you will bray! 🙁
copy/paste BS? and I would love to see Indian suppliers to MS-21 since they have been left out of Sukhoi SSJ.
More claims of something that is yet to come, when something is already flying with the same! asking why india does not supply to a future ms-21 is silly, since clearly the ms-21 does not interest new delhi!
now this hilarious. how u know i dont know.
your words speak for themselves, dear elmer fudd. they are so clear, as clear as mud!
It is just amuzing some one can claim about others.
there is nothing to claim or to blame, h177 even if you were banned, dont be sad, dont be mad! :rolleyes:
Nick_76More star49 speak
why u havent seen Ruaf CinC statements about MIG-31. show me anything like that for Su-30:diablo:
why me show you anything russian CinC about su-30, when they no even afford 2 buy new plane and upgrade only old one already in service
what choice India has?
big choice. economy do well big money, big choice
according to Irkut MKA is 95% common with MKI. the difference is between French and English language.
u talkum moreum nonsense. original mki no remain same in iaf. original mki may be similar to mka. difference is not french and english, but israeli stuff beddy bye bye in mka and replaced with french.
irrelevant stuff. I have shown from where they want technology.
waste water treatment in vladivostok and sewage plant in karachi technology? or technology for rubber prophylactics from trojan in us? tell tell?
surely they also went through this process on much larger scale.
but no plane of their flyum with that much. all u have is marketing for future plane which will remain claim, unless someone give big money.
but it does not mean it is suitable for Ruaf?
RuAf no money to get its pilots fly. RuAF why new planes buy?
surely i am waiting for that for past 3 years.
you keep waiting, lexis nexis might publish one day and you might copy and paste
surely u can even figure that out:D
very obvious that you are child, somewhat wild, copy paste lexis nexis, only problem most is BS.
link for that? Radars are good as long as ther elemental base and software is good.
you dont know nothing about radar, it is best that you stick to thundaarr!
how do u know. they have so many experimental models flowing. production model is going to fly before MAKS-2007;)
if you believe that, you believe in unicorns. that is surely not something to tom tom.
Keep dreaming about nationalities and ethincities. u will never figure this thing out:diablo:
why h177, are you so sad? is getting found out, really so bad? :p
Nick_76I am gonna reply in star49 speak, because simply, you deserve it for subjecting my brain to this abuse
how SOC knows about MIG-31 modernization. Its number Ruaf hanst disclosed anywhere nor the extent of modernization. there internal designation are different.
if RuAF no reveal, how you know big big things to talk big things here
u are not designing a radar u are merely supplying subsystems. it does not take that long for those who knows how to build.
doofus, have we not told you already that it makes no economic sense for india to join up?
But MKI Radar, engine, FBW, Structure, Weopons are not India specific. they are selling to other countries also. any strucutral, radar or engine impromvent they will put in website just like Knaapo, Napo. so do u think Russia didnot tested composites anywhere before applying into SU-47?
mki is india specific. what russia does with mkm, or mka is upto them.
surely u have shown more:rolleyes:
definitely. compared to u, i am neils bohr.
just look at there Car industry how they are developing it. They ask for Japanese/Western manufactures to modernize there plants, built the certified supply chain ,do join research and than later on build Russian design cars inside those plants simultaneously. thats why the biggest Auto firms are state owned now. they are not interested in any technology from India/China.
why car industry? lets talk about sewage plants in karachi and wastewater reprocessing in vladivostok next
u have to provide that for Ruaf now. u said so. the question is India has to pay for Russian contribution but not the other way. thats point.
me no provide nothing cause me brain hurts from having to listen to ur gibberish,
all i know u have one aircraft with very limited flights with no loads. u cannot put that comprehensive.
before plane fly fly, wing, structure test test, composite is developed, tested and is fielded, take much time and money and is how things work. u not know me no help u there.
why person like Mikhail Pogsyn who controls, Su-34/Su-35/PAK-FA/SSJ does not carry weight. or even def minister Ivanov. there is nothing like Su-34. it is 5th generation avionics complex. that is enough message in this.
u takeum marketing bs as gospel when it suit-um you. otherwise actual statements are not good enuff. why you eat our brains, go do something nice with your life.
the point is how quickly u apply. slow decision making and implementation make a project obsolete.
yes, which is why iaf love the mki and it is praised to the gills. ur simply talking nonsense-um.
mitigate risk and cost is done among equal partners in technical field. like Snecma-Saturn. where each has to contribute. or Perm-PW.
india will contribute to areas it has expertise in and mitigate cost and risk.
why u need lexis nexis for russian news. just go there language forms. everything is right there. u can find plenty of stuff. I have posted the link of Russian Professors who worked on that during Soviet Times.
here more they are putting $5B into civillian industry by 2008.
ur copy pasting from lexis nexis and passing it off as a big deal which is very juvenile. only u got found out.
yes the have been scouting for partners all the time. like Tu-334 offer to Iran. they will do it all the time but it does not mean that partner has any technical contribution. that is totally separate issue.
gee, but india has already stated funding only if contribution. uh oh.
Again u are more delusional. India signed up for Bars/MKI and it has to stick with it untill the end. Irkut spent $400m in developing MKI. India decision making is too slow. it cannot change radar in the middle. Zhuk-MSF came much later with new elemenatal base and it started on Su-30MK3 and than Su-27KUB. India cannot jump on it. it has to pay again for certification on MKI and for that money has to be approved and for that long negotiations. In the end India has to accept what Russia provide. the same will be the case with MIG-29K.
again you are talking utter BS, and which is why you are called the forum oracle. India chose the Bars over the MSF at the time after presentations by both Phaza and NIIP, and the latter was deemed a better less risky program. It had adequate time to set the specs and contribute to it. The rest of your post is your usual drivel.
ever aircraft is evolution by that logic. It is the first aircraft with engine of 10 to 1, FBW controls TVC, extended range, centralized computers, only Two screen MFD and so many structural upgrades.
and no production ready examples but big claims, which you wet yourself over.
LCA extensive? ever thought about how big is VIAM and there history. u dont have clue about this thing.
which is why you should not embarass yourself, because it is not just the lca. run along now.
surely the reality does not match. they are going to change military-industrial complex into 80% Civlian. and all the efforts are geared towards that. and considering the slow decision making process from Indian side and little prospect of technology. I dont see how India can enter the project without big amount of money.
the indian side will just contribute 50% as much as it offends your pakistani sense of pride. cheerio.
Nick_76Su-30MKI is with out doubt the most advanced and capable version of the Su-30 in service. But it is important to remember that it is not the ultimate incarnation of the Flanker possible. The MKI represents the best that was available at the time of its definition, This is most clearly seen by the use of canards and X axis TVC. On current Russian designs (Mig-35/ the upcoming Su-35) The canards have been deleted and the engines use full 3-D TVC nozzles.
See below.
If one were to order the ultimate Flanker now- ie if the MKI was to start today then it is likely that it would fly without the canards and that it would be fitted with one of the AL-31FM series engines with higher thrust and full 3-D TVC or the AL-41F, in terms of appearence it would probably look more like the Su-30MKK (but obviously far superior in terms of capability). The radar issue is interseting- Bars is an outstanding radar, but I would like to see a full comparison with the Zhuk-MFSE, another interseting factor is that since phazotron is now flying the Zhuk-A it opens up a the idea of a hypothetical Zhuk-AS. It would be interseting to compare such a concept with Irbis. Incidently the Irbis seems to have been selected for the new Su-35, which suggests a very high level of faith in it. Apparently the Su-35 is to be fitted with a reaward looking radar- supposedly the Osa radar from NIIP proposed for the Mig-29UBT and Mig-21. The MKI does not have a rearward facing radar. But as I said the MKI is still the most advanced Flanker flying but its reign is limited.
The basic fact is that these are developmental prototypes, and all claims are paper claims at this point of time, unless a launch customer sits down and funds completion of each subsystem, and the aircraft as a whole. On paper, the Su-35 is better/equal to Euro canards. On paper, the Zhuk M was stated to be better/equal to any European slotted array radar- once it was developed, it was creditable, but not quite the marketing stuff originally claimed. On paper, Zhuk MSF is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but no production ready units exist bar a few developmental flight testing units. One needs to be circumspect about initial claims, till the project is actually funded and pushed through to completion. See the Kopyo for instance, its but recent that the MTBF was brought upto reasonable levels. These are all claims, claims and till they are productionized, debugged, they will remain learning projects, but thats about it. Same goes for the Zhuk-A, which is why the IAF is not falling overthemselves for the MiG-35, they know how long and expensive it will be to bring it upto specs and the entire aircraft as well.
Russia could build the Pak-Fa without India in exactly the same way the US could build the JSF without the partner nations. The greater international involvement can only be a benefit to the programme but it should also be noted that such cooperation was also offered to other countries.
Definitely, but India does not violate its IPR treaties with Russia for the most part, does not share borders and has longstanding ties. Most importantly, its willing to share the financing.
Nick_76how can SOC know intention of Ruaf? If Ruaf was even remotely interested in Su-35 the would have continued its development just like Su-34/MIG-31. I am only referring to planes which Sukhoi is using for testing.
More BS. Simple fact they dont have money to squander. And SOC has rebutted your claims on the MiG etc.
Asap?lowest price? 4 years already. that all u need considering Zhuk is related to Kopyo and local is cheaper than foreign.
And if India were to be involved that late in the program, more years and money. There is little to gain for the IN by trying to have designs changed this late into the program for 16 aircraft.
If there was any improvment in MKI they would have put on http://www.irkut.com for foreign sales just like Knaapo. yes u need alot of time to develop composite but u also need alot of time for testing with loads which currently LCA lacks.
India’s MKI are India specific. Irkut is not selling them or what India is developing for itself from EW to MMI features which remain India specific and are being integrated in India with minimal OEM involvement, as the Indian side has the right to do so per the deal. Secondly, the LCA composites have already been tested before deployment on PV-1, educate yourself about ac development.
what ever u want to read.
Common sense, which you apparently lack.
there is alot of firms in russia they do outsource work for european firms but what that have to do with what Sukhoi wants. u just look at list of contracts for Sukhoi SSJ. all are EU and US firms. i
So? Whos saying they dont?
offcourse they are rich enough by outsourcing SSJ to EU/US firms.
Huh?
I am referring to Ruaf MFD with Japanese. u havent provide that link. I am sure India started making MFD but point is that technology of any interest to Russia even if it is cheaper.? because u are going to do a joint project. u have to show technology what they dont have or cant have from other sources.
Try for Russkaya Avionicas interviews in russian websites, and you’ll know about Japanese LCDs being used. I dont have time to trawl through links.
Secondly, the issue is one of meeting workshare commitments, simple. How India does it for itself is upto it. If Russia wants to replace them with all russian items to support its industry later on, banzai to them..
No i am not only beleiving what i want but i cannot believe statement like this Comprehensive experiance in aircraft composites due to Single LCA.
Because you know little of the composite development in the LCA, and related programs in the Indian aerospace industry, how extensively these are tested before deployment and I dont want to waste my time further trying to convince you..
where i made things up.
See your posts above about Leninets and this and that..
I am referring to elemental base of radar not the technology. slot array of late 80s is different than of 21st century.
Many things remain common, basic electromagnetics and beam shaping does not change nor do the laws of physics..
because people just cant get over pride and does not want to see reality.
Indeed, which is why you keep babbling.
yes they dont have the money but question is where is there interest in Indian technology if it is supposed to be cheaper. thats the point.
Get an education please, and learn about workshare agreements. In an ideal world, every country would want to do everything itself irrespective of the cost, but they have to cooperate to mitigate project risk and cost.
where is copy and paste. I have given links from Professors who did the research and MIT professor where he ranked the countries in aircraft composites.
Please dont make us laugh. You are some kid in a univ with access to Lexis Nexis, a few keywords and you copy paste the same, and use statements out of context and selectively. Hardly anything authoritative.
In the end u have to accept the product. u have no choice.
Nonsense.
Hi friends … the last few days have been quite remarkable … I flew a sortie on a MiG-29 UB at the Gromov Flight Test Centre in Zhukovski Russia where the Indian Navy’s prototype MiG 29KUB has recently been launched. This would be the 4th fighter jet I have flown though there were aspects of this sortie which were simply magical.
Yes, there were senior Navy officers present, including senior aviators. Their views are one and the same … they will not accept the jet unless it meets every single requirement. So, yes, there was a sense of cautious optimism … but also a resolve that they would not be blown away by what they saw.
Vishnu Som
Associate Editor (Defence)
NDTV
thats what they are doing.
Obviously not, since they have been scouting for partners and are more rational than you think they are.
we are not looking at complete radar. how long it takes to make subsystems?. if u can supply for phased array radar. u can surely build for slot array. we are not looking at high power subsystems for AESA. and Indian participation will not increase the cost.
You are as usual displaying your ignorance and talking absolute BS. Wrt the Bars India chose the Bars over the Zhuk MSF, funded its development and colloborated with subsystem development as it was but midway in development. In the case of the Zhuk-M, its a radar already in developmental flight testing with its components ready, and that too with development almost complete, why should India join the program this late and what for? There are dime a dozen firms in India which work on high end multiprocessing designs, the kind required for radar computers as supplied by India for the MKI- but here, simply there was no reason for India to get involved.
it is clear revolution. It is built with different materials, production methods, and different FBW with 3D TVC. It is designed to perform differently.
Nonsense, its evolution, not revolution.
how do u know it is the same as 1998? they called it Zhuk-M3. or ur just looking at brochures.
Unlike you, I find out the details.
and LCA is not currently in service. infact it has very limited flights on all airframes compare to even MIG-AT. and the kind of composites they want they already given work to VIAM. so by ur logic India should not do it again.
VIAM is only working on specific composites, the extent of work is not detailed. It can be combined with the LCA derived work which has far more structural work in composites already flying.
what this has anything to do with matter. I am not even going to post there statements. they are clearly only interested in money. they are interested in technology which they stated that 5th generation fighter can only built either in US or Russia.
You are clearly delusional. They are in extensive need of finances, the entire russian def industry is oriented towards exports bar their strat forces.
Nick_76Su-47 was never meant for operational service. It is for testing technologies just like Su-35 for engines, FBW etc.
Soc said it.
what has licensing MIG-29K to do with contributing to the project? if ur Industry have the know how. it can instantly apply to any project. not limited to one system like Bars. or India system of development is too slow.
for example Knaapo provides equipment to OIL and Gas industry.
Let me go by this again…slowly..I’ll even type slowly.. India needs MiG-29K’s asap. Ok? It wants them at the lowest price, ok? It only wants 16 to begin with, Ok? Russia says, we can do this, and we already have most subsystems ready, these are the ones that are not. India says fine, we’ll provide those, but give us the fighter asap, at x price. So where is the motive for India to develop items on its own coin for a limited production run of 16 fighters to replace items Russia is already having, especially when India wants to save time and money?
it is interview from 2003 and MKI is still built with foreign components. So slow implementation of project. for LCA unless goes through years of flight tests with external loads. Its composite quality is moot point.
Once again…typing slowly…if in 2003, Fedorov gives the go ahead…and as I have already told you, HAL and the IAF are least bothered about publically detailing improvements to the MKI, then why do you expect it will be tom tommed? Secondly, all new build fighters have components tested and developed, the LCA’s composite structures have been developed over a decade – they work. Get over it, and admit it- it does not offend Pakistani pride to admit this.
u dont have to buy my interpretation. It is so simple when a car dealer ask u to upgrade the car what actually he means. Fedrov exactly knows HAL capacity to upgrade.
Fedorov said what he did…and we know how to take it…we dont need your BS to mind read.
that is pretty low end work. and it is not even worth consideration for that matter we are discussing. i can show dozens of this kind of work. even Irkut itself is 10% owned by EADS and has $200m contracts for parts. I am not going up further into Airbus Engineering desing center or Boeing or MIG factor for A-320 conversion. It is irrelevant to the matter.
Actually, that is only a portion of what the companies detail. There are multiple high end designs being worked upon by several firms in India. I have their print brochures and case studies with me, and an Indian company has even developed the chip for the FBW system of an european firm. Simply put, I have no interest in providing you details, by laboriously typing out things, that are not publically available on the internet. Especially given your record of selective interpretation.
they have no problem with giving work share to India. India can even have 100% workshare:D but it will be like selling entire project to India and they will keep another one for themselves.
So who cares. If Russia feels its rich enough to reinvent the wheel, they are welcome to do so.
agian i have told they have no problem with workshare. u can have 100%. and i am talking about Ruaf MFDs not for export stuff.
I am talking of all MFDs including those manufactured by Russian Avionics Ltd. Go figure. If I start including MFDs the way you are doing, then there are several Indian firms which build everything from tactical computers to integrated displays for systems which I can tom tom. :rolleyes:
http://www.conceptshapers.com/
DATASOL MFDs
http://www.alligatordesigns.com/asp/index.asp
now u dont have the data or just make it up.
I actually do have the data, I just see no reason why I should post it for you, given your general behaviour and juvenile attitude of believing only what you wish.
they are in service but i dont know the numbers.
IOW, you were just making things up.
according to Ruaf CinC they have operationalized more than 200km bvr. and Bar incremental upgrade has nothing to with Ruaf. it is still obsolete by there standards.
By there standards, even the Zhuk radar is modern. Frankly, the Russian AF has inducted few of their own best items.
i have looked beyond already but u seem to be in delousions.
Frankly, you talking of delusions is rich. In thread after thread, you get hammered and ridiculed..keep this up, and the same will repeat.
40 hrs is fine without transport to make it up. now i dont expect others have more than 100 hr anyway considering the age of the fleet. and they are very sensible thats why they are upgrading there entire fleet. as it is cheaper. dont assume export prices.
Dont write irrational drivel. They dont have the money for their own desired status of conventional procurement. They themselves admit it. But we have you- the know it all who pretends to talk for them.
show me where is the failure of time line based on written agreement and non indian interferance.?
PAC report, 2001. Comptroller & Auditor General report on MKI procurement. Starred questions in parliament…yawn, the number of sources are so many, that it becomes boring.
Dont assume everything is copy and paste from Lexis Nexis.
offcourse they will involve 100% Indian technolgy provided the money is right but the end product will become some thing else.
The end product if it meets the ASRs, is sufficient..
how is that irrelevant. Civilian production is now the most harder part. they are spending $12b in modernizing factories.
Sure, sure..
but what these has to do with Russian standards?
Think.
the point is they have no intention even to procure in future anywhere according state defense order untill 2015. it means they have no interest in Indian technology.
Who cares…they want to pork their own defence industries…if they have money, they should do so.
what this has to do with economics?. it is the same like Intel providing chips to both PC and Apple. if u have the radar subsystems manufacture capability u can easily provide subsystems to any manufacturers or it shows that ur capability is very limited or obsolete.
You are clearly completely ignorant. Radar subsystems are designed from the ground up and are not plug and play. They are tailored for each system in particular, and require investment, time and design effort. Given that the Zhuk M was already well into its testing phase and its subsystem development was complete, before India asked for it, why should India fork over money to improve it/ replace existing components and increase the 29K program cost? The Russians said they could manage, so they are being held to that contract.
Su-30MKK has been significanlyt upgraded to carry extra weight. http://www.knaapo.ru. it does not mean that they are not obsolete in aerodynamics. first serious upgrade is Su-35BM which India cant do without Sukhoi.
The Su-35 BM is no revolution over the Su-30 series in aerodynamics either. :rolleyes:
how do u know it hast met the specifications in different time periods. elemental base changes with time. naturally every country wants the best and perfect system but it doesnot mean perfect systems exist for the limited price. look at first APG-68V9 for IDF.
Because dear boy, Phazatrons current performance is pretty much the same what they advertised well back in 1998, in fact in some specs, it still isnt even there. Thats the difference in productionizing something. It takes time and money. Whatever Russia is displaying today will take well nigh a product development cycle to operationalize, provided someone foots the bill…thats the way real life works. You otoh assume that its all ready and everything else is already obsolete, dead, whatever.
so how do u think they construct Sukoi RRJ at Knaapo if they dont know composite work? i am not even going into other firms. here is some more doze of reality. Russia is right there with top countries in the world and they didnot have that much work in 90s.
Still doesnt explain the fact that the airframe of their current fighters is not as heavily composite as the LCA’s. Secondly, there are many different kinds of composites- obviously Russia and India will combine their experiences, and India can pick up its share of work.
But of course, your nationalism will never allow you to accept the fact that India can contribute, so why should I bother. After all, werent you the same chap arguing on the same lines elsewhere!
Nick_76Su-47 is not over. Read the PAK-FA project chief Alexender Dividenko. they are using it for material and interanal weopons testing and it is part of PAK-FA program.
Uh huh, which basically means that it will never be productionized, and so all your paper claims will remain paper claims.
nope. I was just giving example. they are using composites according to what cost dictates. India is not bringing anything new to the table.
Basically you are spinning as and when it suits you. Unless you are unable to discern English, it has already been pointed out, that India has little interest in contributing to the MiG-29K beyond whats economic. Its not being license manufactured in India.
show me technical assistance statement. Fedrov has never been associated with Knaapo.
There were several references.
http://www.royfc.com/news/mar/1804mar01.html
Interview: Aleksey Fedorov, General Director of the Irkut Aircraft Building Corporation
Our cooperation right now is a two-way street. At the technological level (HAL) is a fully modern enterprise. For the time being we partly are ahead of them, for example in part of the production of titanium parts and a number of other technologies. But this gap will be overcome using the deployment of the Su-30MKI’s licensed production in India. In many technologies, for example in the part of the production of composite materials, HAL already today is at a good international level and is of interest as a source technologies. Even within the framework of the current contracts we concede that HAL can be an Irkut subcontractor.
FYI, the MKI’s composite content was 6%. The LCAs is 45% by weight, and > 90% by surface area. Do the math.
or he may be indicating bring more money to Irkut so develop for India. u have to read enough Russian statments to understand them.
In other words, we have to buy your interpretation of what they are supposed to have said versus what they said. Please!
alot of firms are working on these even in Railways and there is global award for Russian firm. but what relevance has this to 5th generation project?
Use your brains, or is it that hard? The contribution of these firms to worldwide projects is well known, including your civilian ones.
http://www.infosys.com/industries/aerospace_defense/cases/default.asp
http://www.satyam.com/solutions/s_iaerospace_casestudies.html
http://www.wipro.com/datadocs/brochures/wipro_in_aerospace.pdf
There are more than a dozen other firms which are in the business.
the point is it is only Indian systems for Indian market. they are not upto the mark where Russia is going to accept. just like they accept South Korean semiconductors untill this point.
If they dont accept it, no money. If they accepted it for other projects, they will accept it here.
the point from Russian point of view is that India has nothing to offer for 5th generation. So India must pay upfront to buy Russian technologies for later customization by Indian for IAF. Russia is simply not buying anything from India. so contribution does no arise to begin with. and India will endlessly debating this point.
Russian MFD with Japanese?
From the Russian POV, they need Indian money so they will have to provide workshare to India. From the Indian POV, they will only provide money as long as they get design responsibilities.
Russian MFDs use Japanese manufactured LCDs in bulk, as of 2003.
u made a statment so back it up.
I dont need to provide any data to the resident Oracle.
Atleast a dozen should be in service as program started in 2000. and what is meant by complete system? Bars is also going through incremenatl upgrades. only IRBIS has new antenna from Osa.
Should be in service? IOW, you dont know. If Bars is going through incremental upgrades it shoots a hole through your claims of it standing still.
So F-18E/F-15E are also strike aircraft but it does not mean they cannot do air to air. Specification should exceed. there is no doubt about that. I can even Say Su-27SM is not inferior to MKI according Russian Generals.
Uh huh, IOW you buy marketing BS as and when it suits you. And you expect to be taken seriously. Learn to look beyond hyperbole.
Bars unaffordable? if they can afford MIG-31 and Su-34 radars why not Bars? Simply they can do without Bars on Su-27SM. so there is no point in going for it.
ROTFL, more marketing yarns. The Russians average 40 flight hours/pilot per year. Surely thats because of a secret plan, and not because they are concentrating their limited funding on strategic forces. Sure! In fact, the Russians might be sensible (which I think they are) and will go directly for the PAK-FA without even mass fleet upgrades which are expensive.
when the agreement was signed and when first aircraft was delivered? and compare it to F-16MLU and M2K upgrade time line. U have nothing to complain.
More yarns. If the vendor fails to deliver something by a certain timeline which he agreed to, he is held responsible. Dont backtrack on their culpability. They are mature enough to admit their mistakes, dont be a shill.
thats not the point. the point is they havent asked for technical assistance. with money why not just buy the end product. otherwise u will delay the end product and obsolete customization.
If they want money, they will have to involve India in technology development. Thats what workshare means, do grow up!
the same can be said about Ruaf. they wont release all the details.
If you dont know the details, why claim to do so and make irrelevant claims.
yes both B-1 and Blackjack follow the same standards but there is difference in protection. so Indian standards may not apply to Russia.
India utilizes multiple components from different countries and knows how to develop items to competing standards.
MKI and Brahmos are for India. what this has anything to do with Ruaf.
You tell us, it was you who was prattling about how they are inferior because RuAF doesnt have them.
alteast India can provide subsystems for Zhuk-M just like Bars or Bars systems are already obsolete.
Why should India provide any subsystems for Zhuk-M when it makes no economic sense for it develop them? Take a lesson in acquisition economics, and IRR and then talk.
MKI is old aircraft related to early 80s SuperFlanker in structure and there havent been any structural upgrade to it.
BS. Talk to the IAF, the MKI structure has been significantly upgraded to handle the extra weight.
the point is not small quantity or large. ur Industry simply dont have the capacity to deal with new technologies instantly. and MIG-29K is not the radar from year 2000. it is M3.
No industry can handle or productionize technologies instantly, even the russians. And the 29 Ks radar has not even met the specs claimed in 1998, what talk of 2000. Learn to differentiate between PR and reality.
for 5th generation u just cannot buy composites on market u have to develop in house for years.
Which is what India has been doing and has done.
Secondly, all your claims including those Lexis Nexis copy pasted links are about composites for engine structures, not airframes. So much for that waste of effort.
Nick_76so show me how many years that LCA with 45% composites have been tested and under what load conditions?. It seems u dont have clue about years of data collection in actual flight tests. Su-47 is doing this for years with internal weopons.
The Su-47 was a tech demonstrator and the program is over. The tests conducted on the LCAs composite structures are also available from open sources, educate yourself.
I am referring to latest Civilian airlines. u cant do without composites now.Military depends on customer discretion. India got what India paid for MIG-29K. in MIG-29M they use alloys to save cost.
Uh uh, so now its low cost which dictates the MiG29K. As it suits you, you keep spinning.
Fedrov is just political statement just like Sukhoi marketing director in Chinese airshow of inviting them for 5th generation. It is meaningless.
So as it suits you, the russian statements are alternatively credible, or marketing. What nonsense.
Fedorov made the statement to ask for the Indian side to develop the MKI further, as can be expected, since it punches a hole in your statements it becomes marketing.
The point is only for collecting money becuause they already know no one can contribute technically except United States. Boeing has design center in Russia and is consulting Sukhoi RRJ (why no indian consulting in composites? it must be cheaper)
Infosys and several Indian firms are working on composite structures and consulting assignments. Specialised production processes and software have been exported abroad as well. :rolleyes:
LCA in production? only a single one which hasnt even lifted a fuel tank. They had these machines flying for more than a decade for testing. I am not even going into civilian and engine industry. the comparision will be quite amusing.:D
Dont be silly, as hard as it is for you. The issue was quite clearly of satisfying workshare commitments which has been shown to be sufficient. The rest of your babble is the usual drivel you write, and which is meaningless.
the point is India hasnt put MFD LCD into operational fighter aircraft. Russia began with Su-34/Su-27M
The point is that if India decides thats part of its workshare, it will do so for its version of the PAK-FA. Russian MFDs rely on Japanese LCDs according to Russian sources, and are integrated inhouse. So much for your silly tangent.
DATASOL India has already had its MFDs chosen for LCH, so by your standards that should be more than enough. SAMTEL is already well on its way to MFD manufacture and is even working on OLEDs.
which Soviet era missles u are referring to?
Look it up.
It increase engine thrust, new air to air weopons, radar upgrades, new simulators for training pilots, so what is limited? it is not meant for air to ground. U need long range radar otherwise they wouldnt have more than double the MIG-31 radar range. U have to look at smaller rcs targets.
How many MiG-31Ms are in service? Are complete systems being replaced or merely upgraded? Obviously you have little understanding of the term upgrade vs new design. Secondly, the Bars is sufficient for the role you described- go figure!
Su-34 is domestic variant so how can u know the exact specifications. show me MIG-31 radar specification from official website. here is general specification for export Su-32. It is already more than what MKI. can do.http://www.napo.ru/eng/?id=11
In other words, you dont know the specifications but were babbling about it being manna from heaven!
The link merely reinforces the fact that the Su-34 is a dedicated strike aircraft, so much for your claims. :rolleyes:
thats why i want to know those systems and why they not being applied to other systems.
They are being applied to other systems and being applied to further upgrades. Whats in it for me to tell you the exact details, only to have you use it for some racially charged debate elsewhere?
I know enough that BARS is not in Ruaf nor it is in future. and they know much more than some outside customer with little contribution.
The Bars was unaffordable by the RuAF when it was developed, so are most other systems. If they can fund it, they might get Irbis-E, or even wait for an AESA system instead. Secondly, the outside customer developed hardware for the radar and is keenly aware of its development path.
which system delay u are referring to?.
The entire aircraft. The Bison upgrade was also similarly delayed thanks to russian problems with subsystems and components. The MKI had issues with competing standards and specifications and integration.
they are also asking Chinese for the same so. but nowwhere it is written that they need technical assistance. thats question.
The chinese and russia dont have the same strategic goals in several respects, simply put they are neighbours. India is not a potential threat. Secondly, they do need assistance, ie money. And that money will dictate workshare.
again future pipeline?
Not really, but you wont get more details till the IAF releases it publically.
link for that?
You wont find it on the internet. I dont even know why I am detailing this- but anyways- Russia follows GOST standards, and even Indian equipment fitted to russian gear or subsystem development, follows the same. This includes EMC requirements. In other cases, open architecture and MiL and NATO STANAG have been followed. It all depends upon the context and the subsystem in question.
so u bring anything thing constructive by putting decade old MKI and Brahmos example.
The MKI and Brahmos are current programs, and are being taken forward. By constructive, I am referring to your infamy on the forum wherein you engage in these useless claims and counterclaims. Which is why there is no point in either encouraging you or giving you relevant information.
this Zhukk has been updated throught ages. I want to know India contribution to latest Zhuk. every thing in Future with no definite time line. thats ur standard answer.
As mentioned previously, your juvenile line of questioning is “have you stopped beating your wife”. Why would India contribute to a Zhuk-M which was already developed for the MiG-29 SMT upgrade and that too, for a limited upgrade run of 16 aircraft? Radar development is time consuming and costly- theres no advantage to India in this.
evidence is clear? where it is. India isnot even in Su-35/MIG-29K. and u are jumping into PAK-FA. that is totally different thing.
India is not in Su-35 because it has the MKI, and will standardize on it and upgrade it as it sees fit. The MiG-29 K has again little relevance for India as only 16 aircraft have been produced. Simply put, you dont know what you are talking of.
Nick_76Proof provided? Show me any provided in this thread… Where?
My point exactly…no matter whatever is provided, it wil never be proof, since you will choose not to believe it.
Nick_76The point is India is not one of them. it has built a single fighter just one year ago.
Wrong again. The composite structures have been validated and developed.
you dont have a slightest clue how expensive and difficult is a modern Civlian airline with all the long flight hrs and aerodynamic efficiency. esepcially the super critical wing. 40 to 50% is normal thing. even MIG-29K use 15%.
Actually I do have a clue, and unfortunately, you dont. Coming to wings, the LCA has a composite wing. If even 40-50% is a normal thing, then how come the MiG-29K has 15%. As it suits you, it becomes “even” from “it has”. I’d take Fedorovs statements over yours, mores the pity.
It was started a decade ago with French engine.
MiG-AT program current status? Su-47 in production? As usual you are unable to distinguish between productionization and reality.
thats the point. what subsytems ur are referring too? which cannot be developed faster and cheaper not mention better in Russia? has India even produce a High Definition LCD TV with its own intellectual property.
Samtel is already working on high resolution MFDs for the MKI. That apart, the entire point of workshare is to split design responsibilities- it matters little if Russia can do it alone or not, if they cant fund it and agree to India doing that part. As GarryB said, if they want an all Russian version they can do it for their own later on.
it means Russia already has the technology so it is releasing now. and how told Yakhont can only be 300KM?. they can do what ever they like with its range and payload. but they arent interested. It is not included in future Su-34/PAK-FA nor it in any bomber fleet.
Yakhont thanks to MTCR is restricted to 300 Km for export. And why would they choose Yakhont when they have huge stocks of Soviet era munitions? As usual you are unable to distinguish between whats economic and whats not.
limited upgrade MIG-31?. It already got more than 200km range air to air missile. MKI has yet to fire that range of missile nor is its radar currently capable of it guiding at that ranges. u need Irbis for that. MIG-31 was simply ahead of time.
What is the current upgrade of the MiG-31M? Is it a limited upgrade or a full reworking of the entire aircraft? You understand English, right?
Secondly, no you dont need Irbis for guiding a missile at those ranges.
Su-34 is so complex than India cannot produce like that even a single one in next 20 years by itslef. It is the first to certify with satellite guided weopons and can destroy hardened strucutures at 250K. Bars is a joke compared to Su-34 radar.
Given that you cant even certify what the specs of the Leninets PESA are and that the Su-34 is not manna from heaven, your bizarre claims are hyperbole, and testify to your lack of maturity.
I can see Indian subsytems for MKI and but the amount of time it took in developing them and there performance is not cutting edge. they are already obsolete by Russian standards. so u cannot contribute technically anything.
You dont know anything about the specs of the Indian subsystems for the MKI, since I do have details on them, and they compare favourably with proposed Russian systems, which is why they are being retained for the production run. Frankly, you are a joke and a disgrace to this forum.
Zhuk-MSF tested were completed in 2004 for Su-27KUB. and it is lighter than BARS. u are confusing export order with capability. One thing is known about lenient that it was chosen over Irbis/Zhuk-MSF for Ruaf and it can simultanioulsy engage 10 air to ground targets. Delay is not with Russian industry. it is with customer.
More nonsense and speculative hyperbole, based on reading copy paste nonsense. Tell us how many production versions of the above radars exist.
You dont know any specs about the Leninets radar, but off you are to talk about systems which you havent the foggiest about.
they deliver Tu-204/IL-96 to Cuba on time. which is more difficult than military systems. I havent seen any delay. ur putting delays due to Indian side on Russia. Brahmos is not delayd on russian side and neither is MKI.
ROTFLMAO, what next, freighters to Togo? We are talking of a 140 aircraft production run with TOT, and upgrade, but you can spin it anywhich way. The Indian audit reports make it clear that the delays were on the russian side as well and even the russians I have spoken to admit the delays on their side, thanks to development complexity and project management issues.
the point is u cannot even make subsystems for Su-35 let alone for PAK-FA. u are not simply prepare for it. Design freeze for PAK-FA radar is achieved in dec 2005. (dividenko,Interavia) and there three radars into the fuselage. it is more complex thing than simply changing to Active antenna in conventional fighter. Phazotron has developed the computer system for its radar and its on there website for long time.
Again more nonsense from you. It would be a miracle if even a prototype design for the actual radar is ready. NIIP this year is asking the IAF for funding active array radars. Just because something is displayed on a website does not mean it is ready. :rolleyes:
i know its much more. but u havent produce even that flashy simulator.
Actually, I doubt whether you know anything. The MKI simulators are in the pipeline, but not that you’d know about them.
the point is Russia already has better systems when u develop. so there is no point for them. what is protection of Indian computer systems against EMP attack because Russia develop things to very different standards.
The entirepoint of workshare is to allocate work which the Indian side has demonstrated that it is perfectly capable of fulfilling. And Indian systems are protected against EMP according to both GOST and MiL standards. :rolleyes:
i need the performance of those with link and time line.
And why the heck do you think you will be given that? You dont bring anything in terms of a constructive debate.
u will keep evaluating and options will become obsolete. what is India contribution to Zhuk-M3 as this started much later than MKI or even to the helmet mounted sight.
Zhuk M program predates MKI by far, and as mentioned earlier, for a limited production run, India will not join any radar program. Coming to HMS, India is developing its own HMD which will replace the Sura-K and Elbit DASH in the future. :rolleyes:
evidence is clear? just a single LCA which was just built a year show comprehensive experiance:rolleyes:
I have shown that they are doing composites
Actually the evidence is clear that India can fulfill significant portions of the workshare agreement as decided. But it is you, who is as usual upto your usual stupidity and innuendo.
Thankfully you havent brought in your racial theories yet.
:rolleyes:
Nick_76Fedrov is referring to a single Factory. Irkut (in which has shares as it is private). and Irkut hast produce much except Flankers. And u are trying to compare a single LCA manufacture by India to Russia which has implement thousands of projects across various Industry. Sukhoi SSJ, Su-35, PAK-FA are built by Knaapo. and they have bought latest machinery, implemented new production process and trained 17,000 workers for that. most of them younger one as it is long term assignment. similar is case with Aviastar, Kapo etc.
Then what is the composite percentage in their current fighters by weight? Do tell us? Machinery and training workers is not equivalent to developing the processes. The details you mention could be for multiple areas, not necessarily composite structure manufacture. And nobody here denies the strength of the Russian aircraft industry. Just pointing out that there are other countries with different niche strengths.
I have Densiov statment. India is very late. its steath aircraft. everything is internal according to fixed weight.
u cannot change deviate from that. Just look at JSF SDD phase.
Those are overall design goals, how they achieve them is still up for debate and design finalization, and detailed subsystem design and development.
u are deluding ur selft now. Kh-555/65/101 that Russia is testing for its airforce is as much in production as Tu-160/Tu-22/Tu-95 in exercises. and i have never heared anything related to Su-34/Su-24 even with Yakhont. they sold Yakhont to Vietnam. and they are developing Ultrasonics now. not anything like Brahmos.
Talk about deluding oneself. Russia and India recently signed an agreement to develop a hypersonic follow on to the Brahmos. So the program is being kept apace. Lastly, why would the Russians necessarily use a 300 Km Yakhont? They have a vast stock of earlier gen missiles which if they refurbish and upgrade, they can have a viable inventory for decades yet.
and how is MIG-31M limited reworking? how do u figure that out?. Su-34 already has two serial production machines and 8 another Prototypes for various testing. they are slow in production because NAPO there is big upgrade going on. I have statement for this also.
You are mistaken. Was every system for the MiG-31M developed from scratch, or is it merely recieving a limited upgrade to its avionics and if funds available, to its weaponry. The Su-34 program is slow as heck, on account of funding issues- but never mind that, its “big upgrade going on”. Please.
It is too late already.
by the time actual contribution started. Russia had pretty much recovered and mostly electronics related. they didnot forsee things that slow and russia recovery so swift.
Who did not foresee and what did not foresee? You are conflating issues. The MKI program charted out what the Indian side should deliver which they did. It gives India the right to modify its own Flankers and customize them further- which it is doing.
this model wont apply. because there is too much disparity in capabilities now and India hast produced anything on time. Just look how long components for MKI devoped. by that time IRBIS/Zhuk-MSF/ZHuk-M3/Lenint already prepared. not to mention LPI for Su-34 in 2004.
India has developed multiple systems for the MKI thereafter, and is now concentrating on its other programs. The Irbis is a prototype, the Zhuk-MSF never went into production, the Zhuk-MS ditto, the Leninets performance is unknown. Simply put, without a launch customer none of the above will be fully developed. Delays are ubiquitous in the russian industry as well- too many factors interplay, but as long as the final product meets user specs and is within a valid range, its ok.
That constraints are so small. that is practically irrelvent in current state.
You have to be kidding. The bureaucratic labryinth in russia wrt non state investment in the MIC for equal stakeholders still exists, and similar constraints exist in India (FDI- 26%). Its a moot point whether the Brahmos model will be followed for the MKI (as I said, and which you as usual are still argueing needlessly over)- but if India & russia decide to simplify things again, they could well do so.
but radar and other subsytes like OLS-35 are already complete. they are tested on Su-30. 117S engine is complete on Su-27M and it is ready for PAK-FA flight.
Those subsystems are for the Su-35, for a PAK-FA, they’ll need something qualitatively different and even better. The radar for a PAK-FA is nowhere developed. The first AESA prototype is but flying now, and even Phaza acknowledge it needs much more funding before it can become ready. The NIIP led consortium for the PAK-FA hasnt declared any ready radar yet either.
just look at Simulator of Su-35. i havent seen any upgraded cockpit for MKI. it is same decade Old. things are moving slow.
Oi ve! Dont go by mere flashy MFDs. MMI is MUCH MORE than that, it involves everything from symbology to ergonomics. And the IAF has spent almost the better part of a decade finetuning everything on the MKI. They wont change it unless they must. The Russians are welcome to keep changing the displays or whatever.
I am not referring to EW or Communication suite. every country has different requirements and may not want to expose to outside. Just read A-50M.
You asked for the Indian contribution- I specified. Now it is your claim that it is somehow unrelated, and because every country has different specs! The fact is that EW and comms are amongst the most complicated systems to contribute, and the IN has chosen local systems.
the simple fact is MKI program is too slow to implement. Most of the stuff is decade old by industry standard. Just show how many billions operations it computer system can do.
The MKI has several computer systems, each of which differs in clock speed, FLOPS and performance. The parameters you are seeking are irrelevant given how different requirements necessitate different processors. One MKI subsystem has a clock speed in Mega Flops. Another is over 8 Gigaflops easily with a multiprocessor board. Secondly, regarding program speed, the program was started later than most equivalent programs and has delivered a FOC program with further upgrades already underway, and is in series production.
but the same system of MIG-29K will apply to MIG-29SMT or even to Kopyo. as they are same technology. if u can do one u can do all.
so what is India contribution to all these Radar systems based on MKI program.
This is a joke. Phazatron contributed to these programs and reused components. It is NIIP which makes the MKIs systems, and India is still evaluating its options for the MKI MLU.
Provide that key areas are strong enough. It is not strong enough for current Russia offerings late alone doing some thing for future.
There is nothing to prove, the evidence is clear if you are willing to admit it. If all you are interested in is arguementation, look elsewhere.
This will be my last post unless you have something worthwhile to say, and not the usual back and forth tennis match for which I have no time or interest.
Nick_76ROTFLMAO.. I thought the explanation of Silverstein’s press speaker was a joke of the year… but this one has topped it all.. 😀 You guys suffer from incurable reality check indisposition… 😎
My friend, you are the joke here and in severe need of a reality check. Nor do you apparently understand how english is used and spoken, but you insist on finding the most bizarre explanations for the simplest of things. All I can wish you is best of luck, for you live in your own alternate belief system and irrespective of what proof is provided, you will either dismiss the source or make semantic quibbles and reject any explanation but your own. Given that, I suggest you turn your keen insight onto roswell and the moon landings next, if you havent already. 😎
Nick_76Indian experiance comprehensive? It hast been proven that 45% composite of a single LCA. Russia has already implemented composites in its Civilian airlines from latest Tupoleve to Illysian to Mil Helicopters. Infact they have went all the way and implemented in aircraft engines. and most of world aerospace firms has Research centers in Russia.
http://www.viam.ru/
You are tending to ramble. First, we are not merely talking of just composite panels and skins, but detailed structures. The LCA’s PV-1 composite development has already met its stated goals, with further improvements likely.
Major weight reduction was attempted during the manufacture of this aircraft’s airframe. Carbon fibre composites were extensively used in the fuselage taking the overall composite content to 45 per cent by weight and 95 per cent by surface area. The part count, which was 10,000 for TD-1’s airframe, was reduced to 7,000 in this case. The airframe weighed 6,430kg when complete which meant the weight reduction exercise had reduced 350kg of weight, a praise worthy achievement.
PV-1 represents the production standard airframe. Of the structural material used the proportion of carbon composites account for 45 per cent by weight, aluminium alloys 43 per cent, titanium alloys 5 per cent, steels 4.5per cent and other materials 2.5 per cent.
Light Combat Aircraft-Tejas Testing
Written by Air Marshal P. Rajkumar, PVSM, AVSM, VM (Retd.)
More weight reductions are planned, but the test progress means that a lot of Flight test instrumentation is also being lugged around at present.
Russia may well have experience in other programs, but Fedorov made a public comment that in terms of combat aircraft, the Indian side was more into composites and they were further along than Irkut.
Interms of contracts for FBW, Engine, Radar, Materials., Weopons, Optotronics, EW. Radar deign freeze is achieved in dec 2005. Engine design freeze just recently. I am not referring to AL-41F1.
Take it with a pinch of salt, even the first flight date, I’d wager the rough design aims have been frozen, and limited funding cleared to the respective institutes to work upon the overall design and subsystems. They can of course try to adopt current systems developed for the MiG-29K/ MiG-35 program, but I daresay they’ll want even more, and India will not agree to any workshare which does not have design responsibility. The last proposal stalled exactly on this point, and the Russian side came back with a revised estimate.
Neither Brahmos nor MKI model can be applied here.
both are already obsolete by Russian standards.(Read Su-34/MIG-31M/MIG-35) Those models were established when most of Russian industries were either closed or obsolete or wanting excessive funds to start. so better to do these things from outside.
This is a complete misreading of the situation, the Brahmos and MKI remain the edge, because they have been productionized. The rest are paper models and prototypes with limited testing conducted, but ambitious aims, which can only be cleared if a launch customer is found. Furthermore, even the Brahmos and MKI program are not standing still. A MLU for the MKI whilst it is in production is planned, and the Brahmos is being improved further, with consideration to new seekers. The point is that these will be proven products which can be iteratively improved. The Su-34, once it gets into serial production and regular frontline service, might approach this status. The Su-35/ MiG-35 remain proposals and prototypes, and the MiG-31M is a limited reworking of an excellent platform, but limited by funding constraints.
The usage of the term “Brahmos model” comes from Indian reports of the PAK-FA-India tieup, it is too early to tell at this point.
Lastly, the model was not established when russian industries were obsolete or wanted too much funds to start- if that was the case, then how was the russian side able to contribute to the program to begin with?
The issue was more simply one of management- being the first of its kind, they wanted a single point of contact and management over the entire program, and which was free of the bureaucratic restrictions of the MIC in both countries. Eg, India has several restrictions about FDI into Indian companies, whereas Russia has had the same viz. third country equal/majority stakeholder in their defence enterprise. Hence, a midway was to create a “paper org” with people seconded from the actual MICs, but which would not have to suffer these rules and constraints, and which could bypass the usual bureaucracy to operate.
Now if the reformed Aircraft corp in Russia still has these constraints, a similar program might be launched for the PAK-FA.
Weight/RCS reduction in Su-35 has already been implemented and it is to fly in next few months.
This is again a prototype. Without the internal schema, its even pointless to compare what is proposed versus what is achieved.
but there is no indication yet of India implementing anything on that scale for MKI.
Because it is not being publicised by HAL, nor is it regarded as an earth shattering event which will be tom tommed by the IAF. For instance, the IAF is planning to use its own HUMS on the MKI, the MKI’s MMI was developed by the IAF, including several unique combinations of western/ eastern concepts, there are several EW improvements…now apart from interest on the www, why would the IAF or HAL detail these improvements? The simple fact is that the MKI program grants design rights to India for modification, provided they dont abuse it by reexporting MKI-IIs to Russian markets, so a lot of iterative changes are planned for and will be implemented on the MKI in the coming years, not all of which will be publically tom tommed.
infact i havent seen any computer contribution to even MIG-29K which started in 2004.
India is supplying the EW fit for the MiG-29K, including an active jammer, as well as other key systems such as its onboard radio equipment etc. The Navy, is only purchasing 16 MiG-29K’s with a possible purchase of 30 more. They have to strike a balance between funding local development of subsystems or go with the more economical Russian alternative. With a limited acquisition, it simply does not make sense for them to fund large scale system development ab-initio. In contrast, the MKI run is over 100 production units, the Jaguar & MiG-27 upgrade units are for 80 combined with more certainly on the way etc.
India decision making is already slow and add to that slow implementation that make any technological contribution meaningless to begin with.
Not really, the russian workshare agreement will ask the Indian side to focus on key areas, and that will begin from this point of time. Its that straightforward.
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