I suspect that the plan is for T3A (40 jets) to be the last.

180 may not be enough for a full seven squadron force as originally planned, but where are the seven squadrons?

Two at Coningsby, three at Leuchars. No further units planned.

Unless Typhoon part-fills the FCAC capability requirement, seven squadrons don’t seem likely to me.

And I see no problem with T1 jets, with the R1 and R2 upgrade they’ll all be to Block 5 standards, and as such more useful (multi role) than the early Tranche 2 aircraft.

I fail to see the slightest relevance to JOUST in QinetiQ’s sell-off, more than a decade later.

And since both sides of the argument have been laid out (and since anyone with an open mind has easy access to what JOUST was, as opposed to what it represents to Rafale fanboys) there seems little point in dragging this thread further and further off topic, as will inevitably happen if people make silly and uninformed remarks.

Is the case for Rafale really so weak that you have nothing to say other than to try to attack the advantages enjoyed by one of its competitors?

I don’t think that the case for Rafale is so weak, though there are questions that need answering properly.

I still want a clear explanation of Rafale costs (including industry’s contribution, VAT, etc. to get an accurate overall programme cost, a proper, rigorous UPC and a likely export price.

I still don’t think that the dropping of Gerfaut and the manoeuvring around the IRST have been adequately explained or justified.

I’d like to know the relative costs of Mica, ASRAAM, IRIS-T and -9X, and how and why Magic was allowed to die…… with proper development, France might by now have had a cheap and cheerful but effective alternative to Sidewinder instead of an admittedly effective but arguably unaffordable WVR weapon.

More utter drivel from Carlo Kokk.

Where’s the yawn gif when you need it?

Perhaps not on their own.

Six demonstrated that they could have operated from Kandahar, even at the extreme temperatures encountered there in summer, but at those temperatures they’d have been operating with a relatively modest load.

The Jaguar could have made a very useful contribution by taking the Iraqi commitment (freeing up Tornado for Afghanistan much earlier) or could have augmented Harrier or Tornado in Afghanistan by taking on the recce and designation roles, and by doing limited CAS – eg strafe and rocket attacks – alongside the Harrier. Or by taking the ‘winter’ part of the rotation, perhaps?

To do more than that, they’d have needed additional weapons clearances – they had no equivalent to the Tornado’s Brimstone or Harrier’s AGM-65 (down and dirty Hellfire integration, anyone?), did not have a dual mode GPS/LGB and and did not have a small (sub 1,000-lb) PGM. You might usefully have cleared the twin centreline carrier to simultaneously carry an EO GP1 recce pod AND TIALD, or integrate Litening or Sniper. None of that would have been especially difficult, as Jag’s status as a ‘mature aircraft’ meant that clearances could be achieved much more quickly than they could on either Harrier or Tornado. (You don’t have to involve the Design Authority).

And with Brimstone/AGM-65 and Paveway IV (or a 500-lb EPW or PWII/III) then yes, Jaguar could have taken over the Afghan commitment, usefully spreading the load on Harrier and GR4.

The Jag couldn’t carry as much as the GR7/9, or carry it as far, but it was faster, and with IDM and Passover was probably a better equipped aircraft for CAS, with all of the extra close support ‘muscle’ endowed by a 30-mm ADEN cannon. (The Jag carried two cannon, but may have lost one of them with a more modern ‘war fit’).

And a Jag deployment would have been very cheap, since the aircraft deployed with a shorter leaner logistics tail than either of the RAF’s other FJ types.

Getting rid of Jaguar when we did was a very, very poor decision, and it has already turned around and bitten us on the ar$e.

It happened on the Jag’s last TLP. The Rafale pilot got complacent and became a film star. The Rafale was caught bang to rights in the Jag’s HUD video.

For a time, anyone visiting ****ty Six couldn’t help but see the picture….. :diablo:

It looked as though the pilot could have got a guns kill on the Rafale, it wasn’t just a fleeting opportunity.

There were other kills on the exercise, but those achieved using the Jag’s helmet and off-boresight nine lima didn’t result in nifty HUD video, so were overlooked by us journo types!

I don’t think they bagged a Typhoon though – at least not without its gear down.

Jaguar with ASRAAM could have posed problems for enemy fighters, given the right RoE, but generally speaking, she wasn’t an A-A aeroplane.

Fedaykin,

Where did I once say EADS or even EF GmbH?

Again: Not with BAE Systems.

Who says that reports are correct in every detail?

Fedaykin,

Not with BAE