JackonickoThe Canberra hasn’t been well served by the preservation movement. There are lots of noses (though some variants are VERY poorly represented) and some very significant airframes escaped scrapping on retirement only to be thrown away carelessly by museums and organisations who should have known better.
The 51 Squadron Canberras are an obvious example, but Cosford’s disposal of the UK’s only whole B(I)8 to New Zealand was appalling. The B(I)8 was the longest serving bomber variant, the last bomber version in service in the strike role, and the sharkmouthed WT346 looked wonderful and was one of the last aircraft from the last squadron.
Then there was St Athan’s WD935, an early B2 in stock condition, wearing the original black grey scheme, which the RAFM then painted in the second (PR blue and slate grey/sea grey camouflage) scheme which wasn’t authentic. They then scrapped the jet. Muppets!
Why not donate the RAFM Halifax to Canada and re-paint the Lanc as a Tiger Force aircraft, boys?
Jackonickoand how are your drawings progressing?
JackonickoPlease, please, scan it and post it here!
JackonickoOh dear.
Were we too quick to assume that T4s always had ejection seats for the pilots?
In his piece “Flying on 527 Squadron” at
http://www.rafwatton.info/album/swift/swift1.html
Ralph Swift said:
“The Watton Canberra‘s were B2’s and had ejection seats for the single pilot and both navigators but in both cases it was a requirement to get rid of an explosive canopy prior to ejection. In the case of the training Canberra, the T4, although the navigators had ejection seats the cramped cockpit for both pilots did not afford enough room for ejection seats and the only way out for the pilots was to slide the right hand seat backward, open the side door in the fuselage and bale out conventionally. In a situation that required the pilots to abandon the aircraft it was a very hit and miss affair and when the Canberra later had a problem with runaway tailplane actuators I think it proved impossible to get out in the time available.”
Les tells me that he read a similar account (by Mike Retallack) in Aeroplane Monthly that said:
“The aircraft for this first flight was a T.4 trainer, which at that time did not have ejection seats for the pilots, so it was much easier to get in compared with later versions, especially for the navigator, as the instructor’s seat slid along rails.”
And
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/Aircraft/Canberra/Canberra02.html
says:
“This was true for the RAF trainer versions (and the IAF’s T.13s which are described later in this section) but the IAF’s T.4s were a little more comfortable due to the elimination of the pilot’s ejection seats.”
JackonickoBanter warning:
AdlA bloke: “There is almost nothing that we cannot do with this aircraft…” 😎
Journoscum: “Can you avoid being shot down by a superannuated and asthmatic under-performing radarless English fighter bomber?” :diablo:
AdlA bloke: “Um, err….” 😮
JackonickoNow that we’re on a second page, may I reiterate the outstanding queries?
I’ve updated the descriptions on page 1, and have found out that except on the B6 Mods, the Blue Shadow strake was on the starboard side only.
[u]B2T:[/u] – Were the B2Ts WJ731 and WE113? Which was the third 231 OCU Canberra B2 in the late 70s, when the OCU had four T4s and three B2s?
[u]T4:[/u] – Did any T4s have a fourth seat for a second nav, in the early days?
[u]B6(BS):[/u] – Did the BS units fly with one or two navigators (I believe this was the case)? I ask as installation of Blue Shadow apparently required removal of one ejection seat, like it did on the B16, though the B16s carried a third man on the Rhumbold seat? Blue Shadow to starboard ONLY.
[u]B6 Mod:[/u] – (Does anyone have an official length figure for the B.Mk 6 Mod from an AP4326 or similar?)
[u]PR7:[/u] – Was the seating arrangement the same as for the PR3???
[u]B(I)8:[/u] What was the shallow fairing below the nose on the last B(I)8s in service (below the yellow stenciled markings and nav markings on the airliners.net photo ref no. 0216380, or below the central emblem of the nose badge of WT365 in ref 0588592?
[u]T11:[/u] – AI17 or AI22 (APQ-43) radar? Or some with each? Did it have dual controls and an ejection seat for both pilots (like the T4), or did one crewmember sit on the Rhumbold seat???
[u]E15:[/u] – (Does anyone have details of the calibration kit fitted?)
[u]B16:[/u] – Did the B16 also have the Decca Doppler and Roller map, F95 camera in nose, G45 in starboard wing leading edge associated with the B15. It had underwing hardpoints for unguided rockets but did the B16 also have AS30 capability?
[u]T17:[/u] – (Does anyone have an official length figure for the T.Mk 17 from an AP4326 or similar?)
[u]T22:[/u] – (Does anyone have an official length figure for the T.Mk 22 from an AP4326?)
And does anyone know or know of Bill Yates, a former nav on 542 and 14?
JackonickoThanks Les, will do.
WJ775 joined 51 in December 1954 – 53 years ago. She retired in 1974, after a 20 year career when such lengths of service were unusual. That’s 33 years ago. She’s a significant historical airframe.
Can anyone imagine leaving one of the last Spitfire PR.Mk IXs mouldering in a field in 1988?
Or a MOTU Lanc.
Or a Battle of Britain Spit in 1973.
This is a historic aircraft, representing the only part of the RAF’s Cold War participation that was active and hot (as opposed to deterrence). No other RAF Cold War Elint platforms remain.
Four of 51’s Comets and three of the four Canberras survived their retirement for years – and now all of them have gone, carelessly (or in the case of the Wyton gate guard Canberra, and the Duxford and Strathallan Comets) criminally tossed away.
There is one last slender hope of rescuing an aircraft that could stand as a monument to the achievements and sacrifices of No.s 51 and 192 Squadron – and indeed to the wartime Elint/Sigint units – since many of the old salts who first flew ‘775 were former Lancaster and Halifax Special Operators!
Jackonickoa) Definitely IRIS-T. Everyone’s very quiet about a BVRAAM, but it’s understood that AMRAAM will be ‘available’.
b) I believe that only the Luftwaffe don’t officially use the Typhoon name.
JackonickoThere’s a very good photo of the Zabra aircraft in IAPR Volume 1, and of the mock ups done at the RRE. The latter are also in Barry Jones’ Canberra book.
The IAPR article goes into detail about how the Zabra device was attached to the nav hatch, which thereby became too heavy to jettison via the usual ‘explosive bolts’ necessitating the installation of a rocket motor forward to lift the hatch clear, and two ‘hinge’ forks at the rear to stop it from ‘settling back’.
The relevant ORB must now be available at Kew – but when I last looked at 51 in detail, the limitations of the 30 year rule were such that I only read up to about 1970. That would give the number of sorties, and might reveal a few more snippets – you might even be able to work out what specialisation the third crew member had on the Zabra flights.
JackonickoHopefully LesB can give a length for the B6(R)…..:diablo:
JackonickoThat would be first rate, many thanks
JackonickoIn the hope that it might stimulate some further detail (or demands for the preservation of ‘775!) find below notes about the B.Mk 6 (Mod).
The individual aircraft record cards refer to the aircraft as B.Mk 6s, but the RAF used a variety of designations for them at different times, including B.Mk 6(Mod), B.Mk 6R, B.Mk 6(R) and B.Mk 6(RC) though they are believed to have been B.Mk 6(BS), officially. I’ve even seen them referred to as PR.Mk 16s!
No.51 Squadron’s predecessor, No.192, received its first pair of Canberra B.Mk 6s (WJ775 and WT301) in December 1954, and then gained another (WT305) on 6 May 1957. The three aircraft initially retained the same nose profile as the standard B.Mk 6 bomber, though the glazed nosecone was replaced by a dielectric radome of the same size and shape. (One of the unit’s B.Mk 2s, WH698, was similarly modified – while B.Mk 2 WH670 and its replacement, WJ640, were not). No.192 became No.51 Squadron on 21 August 1958, and moved from Watton to Wyton on 1 April 1963.
At least WJ775 (and perhaps 301/305) received a new, larger dielectric nose (still following the same contours) attached at the same point as the T.Mk 4 hingeing nose (eg at frame 1). No.51 Squadron used one of the former No.76 Squadron samplers (WT206) from March to November 1962, and then gained another long term B.Mk 6 (WJ768) in September 1963, replacing B.Mk 2 WH698.
By this time, WJ775, WT301 and WT305 had received T.Mk 11 type ‘needle’ noses. These did not indicate that the aircraft had AI17 radar, the T11 nose was chosen simply because it was flight-cleared and offered sufficient space for a new (steerable, spinning AN/APA-6?) Elint receiver.
Blue Shadow appeared and disappeared on the aircraft, before becoming a permanent fixture.
Soon afterwards, the aircraft gained a new fairing under the tail, aft of the tail bumper, below and just behind the original ‘Orange Putter’ tailcone. This accommodated the relocated ‘Orange Putter’ active tail warning radar. The tailcone was replaced by a new, slab-sided, bluff ended tailcone with a sharp trailing edge, which accommodated a J/K/Ku-band passive tail warning system (with an audio select in the cockpit).
From late 1965, the pointed, ‘sharpened pencil’ T.Mk 11 nose radome was replaced by a slightly shorter, rounded-fronted radome. This allowed better performance for the Elint receiver in the nose, and did not indicate a change in equipment.
In 1966, the slab sided tailcone gave way to a more conventional one.
Kit carried by the four B.Mk 6 (Mod)s included a Radio Research Laboratory AN/APR-4 superheterodyne radar intercept receiver with TN180 and TN181 tuning heads, an AN/ALR-8 comms band receiver, and (for Comint) a manually tuned R216 receiver (usually used in Army tanks!) and a 20 channel ‘Auto-voice box’ ‘borrowed’ from the Chipmunk. I don’t know where or how these black boxes were installed.
The Special Operator’s equipment rack formed the ‘roof’ of a tunnel beside the pilot’s seat, through which the SO and Nav had to ‘limbo’ to reach their seats.
The aircraft were retired on 1 July 1974 (along with two of the Squadron’s three Comets). One (WT305) returned in January 1976 for Project Zabra, with a US ‘radiometer’ or ‘Infra Red Radar’ in a turret above the navigator’s hatch. It has been suggested that the device was used to measure the IR signature of newly deployed Soviet fighters. Zabra ran from February until 14 October (flying mainly from Laarbruch), after which the aircraft was allocated as a gate guard – once the Zabra equipment had been removed. The nose radome and tailcone were over-painted by the time 305 returned for Zabra, perhaps indicating the removal or inactivation of the previous equipment.
JackonickoPPS: Anyone know Bill Yates, former nav on 542 and 14?
JackonickoPPS: Anyone know Bill Yates, former nav on 542 and 14?
JackonickoPS: Paddy R,
Yes, please post more from the booklet!
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