Rafale scores well in pictures – she sure is a pretty aeroplane.

It’s positioned to be as close as poss to the pilot’s eye-line and is, like the HUD, focused at infinity. This is intended to eliminate the time taken to refocus the eyes when looking down from the HUD.

It sounds like one of those simple ideas that are close to genius, but while some people love it, others hate it.

It came in for criticism in South Korea and in Singapore.

“These basic informations, as you name them, have nothing to do with Dassault. They build what they are ordered to build so you should ask the DGA or the MoD, but not blame them for these glitches…… Cancelling an order is an easy thing to do, for sure. Look at Austria.”

No, I’m sorry, but that won’t do. The same could be said of ANY military programme, and yet EF GmbH can provide detailed breakdowns of orders which include first flight dates, delivery dates against planned delivery dates, and aircraft standard down to block number, just as Boeing can on the Apache, C-17 and F/A-18E/F, and Lockheed can on the F-22 (I use real world examples where companies have supplied that information to me within the last few months).

Dassault should know what they’re building and be prepared to release the information, unless this is viewed as a French national secret.

And there is no reason for secrecy, unless you want to put a positive spin on things by claiming that more aircraft have been delivered to a more advanced standard, or unless you want to hide delays, reductions and cancellations.

And the one sure thing is that if no-one knows what is supposed to be being delivered, it makes it much easier to delay, reduce or cancel.

As a perfect example of the value of this nitty-gritty detail, I would point out that if we know that there is a C108 and that there are 16 F2 Ms, then we know that the 48 aircraft figure is right, and therefore a sceptical journo can be reassured that “at least one jet could NOT have been silently cancelled.”

If I were a French tax-payer I’d want to know the detail, and I’d certainly want to know which aircraft from the F3 batch were funded, and which were planned but not funded because of the radar funding, so that I could keep watch and see whether they were quietly cancelled. I’d also want to know which variant was viewed as being the lowest priority, which you could judge by seeing which total was reduced by eight aircraft!

Going to the detail of your response, your speculation about C108 solves the problem, boosting the number of F2s to the 48 aircraft total.

As to C101, if it wasn’t built with all F2 hardware (OSF, etc.) and if it didn’t have full F2 functionality, and if it was built as part of the F1 batch of 13 aircraft, then I’d suggest that it doesn’t and can’t count as an F2, any more than you could call Typhoon DA4 a Tranche 2 Typhoon. An F1.5, perhaps? 😉

As to your comment that the juggling of variants in the F2 batch “means more value for money” I’d disagree.

The increase in the number of single seaters announced in 1994 was supposed to give better value for money, because the C is cheaper than the B, and is cheaper to operate and maintain in service. More Cs would be more value for money.

But value for money isn’t everything. The addition of four Bs and an extra M instead of five Cs represents greater operational value, certainly (because the B is a more effective operational aeroplane), and may reflect a decision to acquire more Bs and far fewer Cs, which is why I’m eager to know if C109 is on the line yet, and why I’d like to see a more up-to-date breakdown of the B/C mix in the 51-59 aircraft batch of F3s.

I wonder whether Dassault will build any more single-seat land-based Rafales beyond those whose major assemblies have already been started? I wonder how many aircraft that is? I’ll bet you €10 that they never build more than 26 Cs, total, for the Armée de l’Air, unless an export customer opts for the single-seater.

No Opit, you’re wrong.

C101 was one of the 13 initial jets, and, though it had the F2 MPDU it was not an F2, and did not have OSF, for example. I got that from a Dassault Fox 3, and as a source on Rafale, I’d trust Dassault more than I’d trust Teal.

It may be an F2 now, just as B302 is now flying with F3 software, but it doesn’t count as one of the 48 new-build F2s.

In any case, you can’t count it twice.

It can’t be one of the 13 and also one of the 48.

To get to the 48, we have B303-B327 (25 Bs), M11-M26 (16 Ms) and C102-C107 (6 Cs). That’s a total of 47 aircraft.

So unless there’s a C108 we’re an aircraft short, and if there are only 15 Ms, then we’re two short.

And how about the F3 aircraft?

We have TMor’s prehistoric predicted breakdown, but that dates from when there were going to be 59, and now we know there are only going to be 51. How many Bs? How many Cs? How many Ds?

Why isn’t this all clearly known? Why is Dassault so secretive (we have chapter and verse on Typhoon numbers by Tranche, Batch and Block)?

Why are French enthusiasts so poor at serial numbers? :diablo:

Joking apart, this is important, since it’s all about precision. If we can’t trust basic information on how many aircraft there will be, then how can we trust more complex information about Rafale?

TMor,

C101, B301 and B302 were built as F1s, whatever software standard they have now. (Scramble says: “Only the Air Force’s first three aircraft 301, 302 and 101 (two Bs and one C) are to F1 standard.”)

B302 is now flying with F3 standard software, and B301, C101 and M1 will follow for the F3 trials programme.

Does anyone have first flight dates for the above, beyond those below?

The prototypes were:

Rafale A, F-ZWRE (July 4th,1986)
Rafale C01, F-ZJTS (May 19th,1991)
Rafale B01, civil registration/callsign unknown (April 30th, 1993)
Rafale M01, F-ZWVM (December 12th,1991)
Rafale M02, F-ZWVN (November 8th, 1993)

Confusingly, there are a ‘duplicate’ M1 and M2 – production F1s with the Aéronavale. The prototypes now have OSF bulges on the nose.

301 B F1 (November 24th, 1998)
M1 (July 7th 1999)
302 B F1 (December 1999, exact date unknown?)
C101 F1 (April 16th 2003)

The F1s were:

M01 – M10
C101
B301 – B302

The F2s were:

M11-M25? 26? (15 or 16 Ms)
C102-107 (6 Cs)
B303-327 (25 Bs)

This is 46 or 47 aircraft, however, not the 48 it should be. Can Opit or TMor explain the disparity and ideally come up with the missing aeroplane?

There’s also a problem in that some are saying that there will be 16, and not 15, Rafale M F2s.

So what’s the truth?

10 M F1, 15 or 16 M F2, and 12 or 13 M F3?

The 51 F3s will be:

C108 – ??? (C109 – ???)
B328 – ???
M?? – ??

(When there were going to be 59 F3s, it was going to be 36 Cs, 11 Bs and 12 Ms)

Come on Opit, fill us in …..!