Thank you you just enlightened my day!
Mine too :eagerness:
Ok, can we get back to serious Typhoon stuff now ?
The only thing absurd is that some nut-jobs are trying to sell carrying 3 large drop tanks with 2 large long-range stand-off missiles as some kind of essential requirement, when it’s a known fact that no modern campaign has required this capability. How about some people pull out a map and measure some distances rather than talking out of their hat and realise that using Italy, Malta, Greece and Cyprus you can fly a Typhoon with one drop tank and 2 SSs and hit any point in the whole of Libya. Or alternatively fly a Typhoon, with Paveway IV and 2 tanks, or Brimstone (when qualified) and 3 tanks and hit any point in Libya….. even without refuelling over the Mediterranean….. and then consider that Tripoli is right at the top. Stop the null-pointery.
Libya works well because you have NATO airfields close to the Libyan main cities which happen to be on the coastline, and also because there was no AA threat preventing high altitude egress flights with tanker support close to the FLOT.
Now, what if you have to perform a low altitude high speed penetration before you get to the release point, reducing dramaticaly the range of your aircraft and missiles ?
Can you bet that all future air campaigns will be the same as in Libya ?
Null post. Tornados managed just fine in Libya with the same overall range/endurance on 2 tanks as a Typhoon has on one. It didn’t need 3 tanks to deliver vastly more Storm Shadows than the Rafale did. It also killed vastly more tanks than the Rafale did. The tank-kill rate achieved by each Tornado is Libya was beyond anything ever managed in Desert Storm or by any other aircraft.
What kind of analysis is that ?
You compare the Rafale and the Tornado as if they were tasked with exactly the same range of missions with the same choice of weapons… that’s completly absurd.
For instance, the low number of scalps fired by the Rafale was directly related to the stand off efficiency of the Spectra and ASSM combo against High value Libyan ground assets (including SA-6 and SA-3 SAM sites), hence reducing the necessity for using a more expensive 300+ km range cruise missile in most of these missions.
As for the number of tank kills scored by the Tornado, it was, indeed, very impressive and mainly due to the fact that it was its main role in the conflict thanks to the brimestone, a highly specialized (and effective) anti tank missile which was not used by any other fighter jet.
You must also realise that :
1- Italian and UK A2G missions relied heavily on the Tornado because the typhoon was still a little bit green at the time, while the French were spreading the different A2G tasks more evenly between Rafale, Mirage 2000D/N, F1, SEM, gazelle and Tigers (Helicopters performed a big share of the French tank kills).
2- Therefore, the Rafale were mainly assigned to high value targets (ammunitions depots, command centers, airfields, SAM sites) with consistent Air defenses, not tanks.
3- 45% of the 1900+ Rafale sorties were recce/ISTAR missions.
4- It’s also worth noting that all the Rafale sorties were flown without any external ECM or SEAD support which was not the case for the Tornado.
Wait… The single/dual engine policy was a concern in the 80’s. Things have changed since. What is the difference in loss rate btw teh Raf and the 2K (late M53P) nowadays ?
Bird strike is a serious hazard for engines while flying at very low altitude over the Swiss valleys.
Swiss people didn’t voted against the Gripen, but against a new aircraft at all. Things wouldn’t have been different with Rafale or Typhoon – I actually believe those two would have been rejected even more clearly.
When time to replace the Hornet fleet (ie, all the fleet still available) people will have to chose between a new aircraft or no more Air Force at all, which is a very different situation.
Well, listening to people and politicians reactions in the Swiss media there were 2 main reasons for the “no”
1- We don’t need a new plane now
2- We want a better plane than the Gripen (ie a plane better than the current F-18 so that it can replace it in 10-15 years)
The concequence of N°2 is that some people in favour of bying new planes, and who should have voted “yes”, eventually voted “no”.
I’m afraid that you are wrong. Sector51, the person that faked the video, is a well known hoaxer. He/She simply uses footage that is on the web and thinks that nobody will find the original. The original video shows a group of US troops calling in an airstrike on a car bomb factory in Iraq. The original has been on You Tube since 2007. Sector51 has the footage as “Afghanistan 2014”. I won’t post the original video link as it is full of swearing and not really suitable as per the rules on the forum. PM me if you want the link to the original footage.
Come on, posting a link with soldiers swearing is not suitable ?
Besides, the link is already in the second post of this thread.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?130071-UFO-video-is-this-real&p=2136610#post2136610
Guys, you are in the wrong topic. I mean, you are not even in the proper forum section :stupid:
In this video, from November of last year, you can see the Piaggio P.1HH Hammerhead being escorted by MB.339 aircraft. At around 2:40 and 3:05 in the video it would also seem that they are formation flying.
Arming the Hammerhead will be the last stage of development, and Piaggio Aero expects the aircraft will enter service in 2015.
]
Well, obviously the MB.339 is not in close formation with the P.1HH unlike the Rafale and the Falcon with the Neuron.
The MB.339 role is to follow the other aircraft from a distance like in any other first flight. (like the rafale following the neuron first flight in 2012)
Now I agree that this is not a particularly spectacular “world premiere”. Still, this is a nice video.
As opposed to: “Guys, it’s not the aircraft, it has everything, it’s “Omni-Role”, it does everything and it’s reasonably priced… The customer just doesn’t want it… Nor anyone else for that matter”
Blast, and blasted… My fishing rod just snapped again!
:dev2: :dev2: :dev2:
Yeah exactly. Customers are ingnorant idiots 😡
I wonder what India had in mind when they chose the underdeveloped-overpriced typhoon instead of the reasonably priced omnirole rafale :eagerness:
Yep, but guess which one got kicked in the bollox as opposed to; Good chance to proceed at a later date. :dev2:
Well, Dassault proposal was unworkable 3 years ago…Yet they are still in the competition, for some reason. I don’t think the UAE are still working with the Rafale team just to be nice. And Dassault is certainly not test flying new heavy weapon loads on its own money, right now, just because they like throwing millions of € out the window. :very_drunk:
Then you have to admit that the quote Halloween pointed out is quite funny.
“Guys, the problem is not the aircraft, it is the cost of all the dévelopment necessary for it to meet the customer requirements !”
At least the typhoon team has good sens of humor :highly_amused:
AD-2
Nice, but not really modern military aviation :dev2:
It was 40 targets detected and 8 tracked….
So more or less 25 tracked now. Already quite a lot….
40 tracked
8 reinforced traks for missile shots
AFAIK
I believe that was ‘vingt’.
Yes, that’s what she probably wanted to say but due to her russian accent, it sounds like “one” to a french ear, and that most porbably what Dassault CEO understood (that’s what I understand myself) hence his expeditive answer (no, it is much more) despite the fact he’s just said that the price was confidential and he won’t comment about it.
Neat and beautiful 😎
The tank itself may have been borrowed from M2000’s stock.
is that possible ? I thought they were not the same.