But what about Australia, South Africa, Israel, Egypt, Pakistan, Brazil, Argentina, Libya, Peru or Spain? I am sure their aircraft were not donated
Australia : lost (F-18C&E- USA)
South Africa : lost (gripen – Sweeden)
Israel : lost (F-15-16-35 – USA)
Egypt : lost (F-16 – USA and will probably buy american for the next fighter)
Pakistan : difficult to see with the present chineese cooperation
Brazil : a good chance here
Argentina : will depend on the state of the economy…
Peru : lost to russian aircrafts
Spain : lost (F-18 and eurofighter)
Libya : wait and see 😀
– The M01 is retired
– The B01 was still in use (only for small tests) in 2005 but i don’t know its status in 2007
The M02 is used for all the weapon system trials of the navy F3 standard.
it will probably be used for the RBE2-AA trials onboard the CdG aswell.
june 2007 A2SM trials




GBU-22 trials (2007 ?)
Exocet trials (2007)
So when do we get to see USN Hornets landing on the Charles De Gaulle…?:cool: :confused:
Already done in may 2005 😉
Am I right in saying that 8 aircraft were removed from batch 3? and that they will be most probably procured with batch 4?
Well, not exactly. 8 a/c of batch 3 have been delayed but finaly ordered in 2007. They are not part of the 60 planes of batch 4
When will batch 4 be? Or at least when should it be?
order in 2008 – deliveries after 2012
You say batch 4 will be 60 aircraft?
yes.
Does that 60 for batch 4 include or not include the 8 delayed aircraft from Batch 3?
no.
What chance does batch 4 have of happening?
2008
When or will the F1 and F2s be upgraded to the batch 3 or 3+ standard?
Will they all be upgraded or just some?
If some how many?
All the F2 (48 aircrafts) will be upgraded to F3 standard (it is mostly a software upgrade)
There are only 10 F1 (all M) and they should be upgraded to F3 standard in 2009 but this upgrade could be canceled. In this case, these 10 aircrafts could be used as spare planes.
Will batch 3 aircraft be brought up to batch 3+ standerd? And if so when?
Nothing is decided right now.
F-15C 1992 – 2006 (armed with AIM-120)
I would rank the mirage 2000-5 + mica above the F-15C after 1997
If you see the sales of the mirage 3, where went all that market?
mainly to the F-16, some to the F-18 and some to the mirage F1/2000
I think the main problem with Rafale is that it was designed to meet a specific French requirement to operate off their carrier, so it probably doesn’t match up particularly well when compared against the heavier, larger and more capable Eurofighter that it has to compete against for export orders.
Then you could explain us why the eurofighter only managed to be exported when there wasn’t an open contest and it had not to confront other fighers (Saudi arabia, Austria).
In all open contests where the 2 planes were involved (Netherland, Korea and Singapore) the eurofighter was rated lower than the rafale. So, you just can’t say that the rafale match up worse than the eurofighter…it’s even the opposite as far as those 3 contests are concerned.
In fact there are several factors to take into acount :
– a very low dollar rate : US hardware is now 40% cheaper than it used to be just because of that
– Very agressive US (political level) and russian (price level) policy
– New agressive competitors : eurofighter gmbh, Israel (for subsystems), and Gripen international.
– A limited offer compared to USA and russia… no plane to compete with the gripen and the F-16.
– Clumsy and slow administration (as seen in Morrocco)
– 10 years too late on the maket
– no amraam (you have to buy the twice expensive mica)
A nice picture of a rafale M F2 taking off the CdG
At that time, they were not cleared for the 2000L tanks + GBU

Anybody in here who knows the context of this photograph ?
Air force joke on a navy rafale 😉
Would the Rafale have a close coupled canard layout if it wasn’t designed with carrier operation capability in mind?
probably.
The close coupled canard layout is allowing very short landing distance which is a key point for the french air force (the plane can land on damaged runways)
Wonder if a (relatively) small tactical airforces like the French who operate both land and carrier based aircraft wouldn’t be better off with carrier versions only.
According to Yves Kerervé (rafale M test pilot) the possibility to buy a carrier aircraft (rafale M) for the French air force was never studied… unfortunatly, because it would have simplified a lot of things and bring more flexibility.
Did the French Air Force have to accept any penalties or restrictions for the aircraft being carrier capable?
Well, the rafale C/B is probably a bit heavier than is could have been if there had not been a navy version but the C/B are also stronger than casual air force fighters.
The rafale noise has been redesigned to allow for a better downward view for carrier landing (don’t know if can be considered as a penalty, though)
the new Ulmer O² mask for the rafale (http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13697&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120)

the 125 kg is already used by the sem
Who would have though a decade ago that currency union would have hurt the French economy so much?
Well, it is not the euro which is high, it is the dollar which is very low.
It would have been probably the same with the franc.