Thanks it was just an exercise in possibilities someone pointed out to me you could get fuselage done one place and each wing somewhere else. But making sure they all fitted and getting ownership sorted out when problems arose would be a nightmare

2 people for 2 years seems reasonable for the fuselage

say another year to year and a half for wings and tail and maybe 6 months systems integration (if you used the time to get to that point to create the systems

the engine assumed you had one from start would be competed in the 2 year fuselage plus build

the other issue of course is getting the time from subcontractors who may not have the gap to do it

so four years probably realistic but if you had 150 Million prob quicker

Thanks All , as you may or may not know

I am making a study of all RAF parachute escapes upto April 30th 1940 – Around 500 Incidents

A long term mystery on mine was a Collision between Pilots P/O James Reginald Bryan “Jim” Meaker and P/O Charles Francis Ambrose around Feb/March 1940

A correspondent of mine has recently (via a House Clearance – so he a can’t ask the original owner) obtained a box of Gloster Gladiator bits which were labelled

“Gladiator. Collision Calowell Farm Near Whiteshill, Stroud 14th of March 1940. Aircraft believed to be from 5 o.t.u. Aston Down” – This came from the Paul Aston Collection

– A written report is as follows (I have transcribed)

AIRCRAFT TYPE/SERIAL: GLADIATOR K…
DATE AND TIME OF INCIDENT: 14.3.40
LOCATION: CALOWELL FARM NR WHITESHILL
CREW: PILOT
NAME:
NATIONALITY:
RANK:
AGE:
ADDRESS:
CASUALTY: UNINJURED
UNIT: 5 OTU
HOME BASE: ASTON DOWN
MISSION: Eye Witness: Three in aerobatic formation, two collided both coming down some 150 yds of each other card missing form AHB

AIRCRAFT TYPE/SERIAL: GLADIATOR K…
DATE AND TIME OF INCIDENT: 14.3.40
LOCATION: CALOWELL FARM NR WHITESHILL
CREW: PILOT
NAME:
NATIONALITY:
RANK:
AGE:
ADDRESS:
CASUALTY: UNINJURED
UNIT: 5 OTU
HOME BASE: ASTON DOWN
MISSION: Three in aerobatic formation, two collided both coming down some 150 yds of each other card missing form AHB
Dug remains of the one from depression 14/10/84

This incident was new to me and I can’t find any reference to it in my research, nor any aircraft losses for Gladiators which match- It does not mean it did not happen though (as we all know)

However, for reference

1) What I do know about the incident to Meaker and Ambrose is an account by Meaker in which it says he was flying in formation when the collision occurred,

“
Chichester Observer – Saturday 06 April 1940
Page 1

CHICHESTER PILOT BALES OUT
PARACHUTE DESCENT
Pilot-Officer J.R.B Meaker
of “The Cottage,” West Dean, home on leave, had an exciting story to tell.
“I was flying along in formation,” he told an Observer reporter, ” when I suddenly found that I was
flying without a tail. The plane behind had bumped into me.
I immediately bailed out.
The parachute I was wearing was not my own and was too large for me, so I had
some trouble in finding the ring. They were anxious moments. When it did open
I found myself descending upside down, but by touching my feet with my head,
I was able to straighten out and land safely.”
Pilot Officer MEAKER was formerly on the staff of the Observer and left to join the R.A.F.
He is none the worse for his experience. “

b) A further Internet Bio on Meaker says he was involved in a “Gladiator” Collision,
c) Meaker and Ambrose were at 12 Group Pool at Aston Down at the same time – So the location is good
d) As I have said before the dates are right

Ambrose joined 12 Group Pool February 1940

For Ambrose I also have

“After converting to ‘Hurricanes’ he was posted to 46 Squadron at Digby on 23rd March.”

– 12 Group Pool would have had a couple of Hurricanes but mainly Gladiators as they were teaching not only too to operate Hurricanes but also fighters in general – They also had Harvard and Blenheims

I had been looking for this incident for years, and I know not to get my hopes up, but this feels ‘right’ – I have always suspected the incident happened in their training together at Aston Down

Note: Ambrose and Meaker were not in Norway together when Collision occurred, whatever the books/Internet says. Meaker prob never went and Ambrose if he did go did not fly Operationally

The dates DO NOT match UP anyway – Incident happened late Feb/Early March 1940

So when I found out about this (unknown to me Collision at 5 OTU at the right time and in Gladiators I got my hopes ups

Mention of this incident is in Wings Over Gloucestershire

21st March 1940.

Gloster Gladiator K7944 No.5 OTU.

Collided with Gladiator K7945 over Salmon Springs, Caliwell (Callowell), during aerobatic practice and crashed.

Gloster Gladiator K7945 No.5 OTU.

See above.

See:
Wings Over Gloucestershire
Rennison,John.
N.P.,:Aspect (Author), 2000 (2nd.rev.ed.).
pp.155-6

I have been in contact with John Rennison and I am hoping he can remember his source

But note different date

Both K7945 and K7944 were at 5 OTU at the time and K7945 wa SOC 28th March 1940, (so that is good). K7944 has a dual history and also turns up at 112 Sqn with a write of date 12 Jan 1940. A colleague of mine suggest this later incident was actually K7977- You can find reference to this all over the web if you google K7944

There is a poorly written-up F.1180 for Gladiator K7977 on 12 January 1940 with 112 Squadron.
It overshot on landing and hit a fence at Helwan, with a ‘?’ after Helwan. Pilot was
Sgt. E. N. Woodward, apparently unhurt. That’s all.
I note however that the three ‘7’s in the serial all look the same but someone might (could)
have read them as ‘4’s ! Cannot have been a bad accident for K7977 as it served in the Middle
East and East Africa until 6 November 1940.

Sgt. E. N. Woodward = Sgt Ernest Norman Woodward #566289

Anyway, hopefully the Form 78 of the aircraft will confirm some details. As stated there is no Form 1180/1181 for this which is why it is particularly hard to track down

The mention of Oxford that flew into houses at Cashes Green is interesting as that aircraft has been suggested to me from a Stroud Local, an her memory of something her father told her bout at the time,. though she did not remember the type – Can I have the serial number and date please ?

Still some way to go on this, especially on confirming date and types – But I am now 95% sure this is my mystery collision bail out.

Paul

Ian thanks for your reply

The collision is reported thus

21st March 1940. ALOS seen 14th March 1940 reported

Gloster Gladiator “K7944” No.5 OTU. – Some confusion on this as the same serial was with 112 Sqn in Middle East at time… Though personally I think the middle east one is wrong

Collided with Gladiator K7945 over Salmon Springs, Caliwell (Callowell), during aerobatic practice and crashed.

Gloster Gladiator K7945 No.5 OTU.

See above.

See:
Wings Over Gloucestershire
Rennison,John.
N.P.,:Aspect (Author), 2000 (2nd.rev.ed.).
pp.155-6

No accident Cards seem to exist!

Someone called Ashton may have been involved in the ‘dig’ does this ring any bells ? – But may just be surface recovery…

I think I know the names of pilots involved (both survived) but still some work need on this

Kind Regards

Pilot Officer ‘Sandy’ Ballantine and his gunner Sergeant McTaggart engage a Heinkel 111 over North Lincolnshire on the afternoon of 7th March 1941. Ballantine was airborne in Defiant N3333 YD-B of 255 Squadron performing an air test when he came across the Heinkel in layers of cloud. Less than two months later both men were forced to bale out of this aircraft when it was shot down in combat over Nocton in Lincolnshire.

4 May 1941 255sqn at Nocton Fen

This aircraft was destroyed whilst on a patrol sortie east of Lincoln. The engine exploded at around 4000 feet in flight, forcing the crew to bale out. The aircraft was wrecked when it dived into the ground near Glebe Farm, pilot P/O Arthur Alexander “Sandy” Ballantine 85650 and gunner Sgt Chrys H G McTaggart 902423 were uninjured apart from minor bruising.

Ivor

Thanks for that I googled and got the collection at IWM doh…..

Paul