But who were the others and were they driven by an agenda of some sort, I’m just curious thats all and are there any sources that were involved with both aircraft in the fly off who have spoken aloud about them?

Don’t forget the USAF quite often has its own agenda.

In the end it is a matter of whom you choose to believe
when it comes to such things. Any information can be
presented in an ambiguous fashion by anyone.

After you leave your chauvinism back home, I suggest you tune in to MAKS 2009 when we expect the PAK-FA to be revealed, with, if we are very lucky, fifth-gen armaments that are in development for the aircraft.

Chauvinism? No. Sarcasm? Yes.

Sarcasm aside, I was asking an honest question. I have seen
many scenarios where fanboys are relying on such a weapon
to buttress their arguments, but offer no evidence to its healthy
existence. Such a weapon would be a definite headache for many
countries, if it existed. It is curious that there has been very little
said about the new generation of AAMs to equip the PAK-FA and
other legacy aircraft in the future. Therefore, I asked (albeit it in
a somewhat snarky way) for information.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers!

>How many KS-172s/R-37s can the T-50 carry?>

The ‘big stick’ KS-172 gets talked about a lot, but….

Is the KS-172 being tested? Has it been approved
for production? Any evidence for or against, besides
wishful thinking? Just curious.

Cheers all!

Errrrr. Are you sure you don’t want to see the list of American, British, French or other projects that didn’t come to any sort of fruition? Failures are not a specialty of only Russians.

Well, I was thinking of the TSR-2, XB-70, CF-105, Mirage G, Mirage 4000, YF-12A, etc. I think the CF-105 is still the saddest saga of them all….

And I agree with Flex, stupidity in the development and procurement process is certainly NOT an exclusively Russian ailment.

But back to the PAK-FA….when it finally is revealed to the world at large I think it might be a bit of a let-down after all the speculation, much like the final ATF designs were after all those cool artist’s representations that were bandied about in the late 70’s and early 80’s.

OTOH, I am sure Sukhoi will do themselves proud….Raptor killer or not. 😉

Actually I believe that feudalism is taking shape in the USA. The “nobles” in Washington believe that all wealth in this country is their’s to play with and we “serfs” should be happy for the table scraps they toss down to us. The “noblity” also includes incompetent CEO’s who bankrupt their companies and demand a bailout from the Feds. The celebritards in Hollywood also think of themselves as “nobility” as well. They lip sync a couple of songs or make some crappy movies that debute in a DVD rental shop and they think they know how to run the universe.

When looking at the present situation in the USA and Europe (if not the world in general) one should always remember two questions: “Who profits?” and “Where is the money going?”. I think most of us see that the people are NOT profiting and the money is most assuredly NOT residing with the people either. System-wide changes are required in the USA and those changes are probably not going to happen with the president-elect, Mr. Obama.

So it goes….

This discussion has NO relevance to “Modern Military Aviation”;
please Mods shut this thread down. 🙁

If USA politics must be discussed, there are more appropriate
forums in which to do so.

Have a better day all…. 🙂

Today’s news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080828/ap_on_re_eu/georgia

Best paint schemes (IMO)….

Aesthetically: Ferris splinter camo and the Swedish
splinter camo that the Viggens sported in the 80’s.

Tactically: The Canadian CF-18 scheme with the
(IIRC) two-tone grey and ‘fake’ canopy on the
fuselage underside.

Honourable mention: The variety of Flanker schemes
from the the late 90’s to present seen at airshows.
USN squadron schemes from the 60’s and 70’s (one
of the best being the F-14 ‘Wolfpack’ scheme).