I see that M2K’s would be better used for deep strike but Mirage 3 – JF-17 -M2K – F-16 can all carry out point defence to the same standard or better than F-7 so to keep the more capable Mirage 3/5 fleet to me would make sense or am I missing something about F-7

Also at this time the PAF has an outstanding Mirage 3/5 maintenance program or has this stopped?

The Mirages are a major headache, as per interviews with the last three ACMs. Getting spare is harder and harder (despite PAF buying up almost every second hand Mirage 3/5 globally) ans yes, they have excellent facilities but there is only so many times you can overhaul a plane and engine. Most PAF deaths in air crashes have been in the Mirage. You are right, a ROSE upgraded verion is much better for deep strike then a F-7, but F-7s are still relatively new air frames (in fact in this months AFM they report it just aqquired 4 new F-7T trainers from China)

Another (often under reported) reason to keep the F-7s is that the PAF sees them as excellent mounts for younger pilots to “learn a trade” on before getting on to the JF-17 or F-16 (and maybe M2K-9 in future). The air plane has a basic radar, no fly by wire and relies on just the AIM-9M.
The logic is you learn to fight and fly in these (against other PAF types and foreign types) and then life in a more advanced plane is easy.

I had a copy of Flight International in the 90’s with a full page advert on the back cover of the then recent order by Pakistan for the Mirage 2000 dash 5. It came to nothing of course but if Pakistan acquired UAE Mirage 2000 there would be a certain degree of irony.

I am fairly sceptical but if it did happen I would say Pakistan would probably adjust their retirement schedule for the Mirage 3/5.

It would be difficult. 64 off M2K-9s would mean they could retire the last 4 Mirage sqds over night, the issue being pilots and engineers. Would all the current Pakistani pilots and engineers working on these planes also be part of the deal? Even if they are, is there enough of them? As surely many of the pilots of these planes are UAE nationals, so PAF would need a lot of time and effort to train these up.

Also basing may be a problem with that many injected overnight unless they took on the exact facilities the departing Mirage 3/5s leave.

Also interesting thought, what do you so with 100 spare Mirage 3/5 ROSE planes? Scrap them all?

Entire fleet? But what about the Black Shaheens? Pakistan can’t get them without French permission, which is unlikely to be granted, The UAE can’t put them on its F-16s, because the USA won’t allow it. The UAE would lose that capability.

For Pakistan, a fleet of second hand Mirage 2000s could be a good replacement for the ROSE Mirage IIIs & Vs. The PAF could do a repeat of what it’s done with the II/Vs, sweeping up old, surplus & orphan airframes (Egypt? Peru? Maybe even Taiwan, if it sorts out its F-16 fleet?) & spares stocks to keep the fleet going.

Yup, good point, but am guessing if that the French get an service support agreement out of it, they may approve the Black Shaheen. Pakistan already has a similar capability with RAAD so there should be no major political argument here.

Yup, given the capability leap per plane, such a deal would enable the PAF to retire it’s entire Mirage 3/5 fleet practically over night.

I always thought Japan, India and Korea do have some common technical and geopolitical requirements on developing a new stealth fighter plane. But in reality, why it’s so hard for them to co-operate?

Politics mainly I reckon and the different tech capabilities of each nation.

Try and have some balance and facts, MIG-21s did perform well but keep in mind the below too

First of all, the lack of the advanced active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar on their F-15s. Second, the air engagements typically involved six Eagles against up to eighteen IAF aircraft with no chance to simulate any beyond visual range (BVR) missile shot (due to the Indian request of not using the AMRAAM).

Furthermore, the Indians had sent their most experienced airmen to fight against the Americans whereas the latter belonged to a standard squadron (hence there was a mix of experienced and less experienced pilots).

http://theaviationist.com/2014/05/02/cope-india-2004-results/

Dassault gave up discussions about Alpha-Jet after 15 years of discussions. So, are you telling me you find 2 years a long discussion ?

If it is about the same EW/Avionics and weapons fit orginally offered, then I would suggest the longer the discussions, the older the tech will be once in service.

Unless of course they will be continually upgraded during delivery

Significantly? it gained 1.16%. Stop spamming BS plz
http://www.boursorama.com/cours.phtml?symbole=1rPAM

No BS, you can check it out

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DSY.PA

So, the former PM says no cahs, the defence aquistion budget is slashed, “negotiations” have been going on with Dassault for over two years and you really think this deal will happen?

I was criticised by several posters for suggesting the Rafale deal is dead in the water, but surely $2.7 billion per year in Air Force equipment costs means that not just this deal but a few others may be off the cards now right?