MountainThis year the PLAAF contingent is comprised of J-10s & J-7Es. No Flankers of any kind in this exercise this time.
Yup, my bad. Shame no F-16s or SU-30s involved.
Air Chief witnesses Pak-China Int’l Air Exercise ‘Shaheen-III’
Tahir Rafique Butt expresses satisfaction on professional acumen of participating combat pilots and technicians of the Air Exercise.
Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force Tahir Rafique Butt witnessed the last phase of Pakistan-China Joint International Air Exercise “Shaheen-III” at an Operational Air Base of Pakistan Air Force on Saturday.
He expressed satisfaction on the professional acumen of the participating combat pilots and technicians of the Air Exercise.
He said the Air Exercises between the two professional Air Forces would not only cement the already existing friendly bonds, but would also give an opportunity to learn from each other’s combat experience.
Air Chief said “Shaheen-III” which is being conducted in near real scenario will provide an opportunity to combat crew of both Air Forces to acquaint themselves with the latest employment concepts and practices.
People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) contingent is comprised of J-10 and J-7 combat aircraft where as PAF JF-17 Thunder, Mirage and F7 PG combat aircraft are participating in this multi-dimensional Joint Air Exercise.
“Shaheen-III”, which is the third in the series of Joint Air Exercises with PLAAF, is conducted annually on alternate basis in both countries. “Shaheen-II” was conducted in China last year.
MountainPakistan becomes first country to deploy China’s BeiDou GPS network
MountainNo 19 Sqd officially stands up as 4th F-16 unit in PAF
PAF inducts fourth Squadron with modern F-16s
21 May, 2014
The aircrafts have been purchased from Royal Jordanian Air Force.
Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has re-equipped fourth Squadron with state-of-the art aircraft F-16s today.
A ceremony in this connection held in Sargodha today (Wednesday), which was attended by Chief of the Army Staff, General Raheel Sharif as chief guest. Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt was also present with him.
A smartly turned out contingent of Number 19 Squadron presented the general salute to the chief guest followed by parade. The Chief Guest transferred the Squadron flag to new commander and as per tradition newly inducted F-16s of Number 19 Squadron presented a fly past followed by a stunning aerial display.
It is worthy to note, that the aircrafts have been purchased at a minimal price from Royal Jordanian Air Force after series of negotiations held between concerned ministries and the concerted efforts of Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt.
Number 19 Squadron “Sherdils” was raised in 1958 at PAF Base Mauripur with 12 American origin F-86F Sabre Aircraft. During 1965 war, Number 19 Squadron, apart from other victories, has the unrivalled distinction of carrying out the first successful close air support mission at Wagha, and famous air strike at Pathankot airfield. It also has the honour of having six Sitara-e-Jurat. In 1990, the Squadron was equipped with Pakistan’s newly acquired Chinese F-7P interceptor aircraft and was converted into an Operational Conversion Unit in July 1991.
The current Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt also commanded the Squadron with the onerous responsibility of setting up the new conversion unit. The unit has strengthened the defence of motherland by graduating 652 fighter pilots till date.
MountainDissimilar training with F16MLU ? I don’t see Pakistan with any interest in the Su30
Will definately be for DACT against all PAF types.F-16s can fly against who they wish, only restrictions relate to basing with Chinese types. Will be interesting for PAF to see how JF-17 does in WVR with SU-30
MountainChinese contingent travels to Pakistan for joint air drill
Indications are its a full SU-30 sqd
MountainSo as for the data link question please see bottom right hand corner plus see link it would seem MF-2000 has Data Link . As for the helmet mounted site the Moroccan F-1’s do not have this but the cockpit is compatible with the top sight system as used in M2K-5 and MIG 29 K for this capability
[ATTACH=CONFIG]228398[/ATTACH]
farmorocco.wordpress.com/…/moroccan-mf-2000s-upgrade-specificatio.
Right, so you now admit that you were incorrect in stating earlier that that teh upgrade came with HMS?
As for the picture, I cant read all of it, so the data link bit could mean anything, but considering Link 16 has not been supplied as part of this upgrade and Morrocco has no AWACS can you please elaborate on what type of data link this is, or are you wrong on this matter too!?
MountainPretty sure the F-1 could fire the sidewinder and python without the MF2000 upgrade.
NO
Can the F-1 now use HOB missiles? No.
Because mica isn’t a HOB missile now?
Can it data link to AWACS? No.
Uh what is link 16 made for?
Can it use the DB-110 pod. No.
Not sure if it can use Reco-NG pod
Can it transfer Sniper pod data to a ground terminal to frontline troops?. No.
No but Damocles yes, uing ROVER
and (again) you miss the fact the cost also included Falcon Star airframe upgrade.
MICA is a HOBS missile, but the MF2000 does not include a helmet mounted site. (Second time I have made this point know)
So still no data link on the MF2000 (Third time I have made this point)
Your actually not even sure it can use any recce pods, so what is your point here?
Point taken on the Damocles pod. I stand corrected.
MountainCapabilities depend on context. For example, can Link 16 link to Pakistan’s Swedish & Chinese AEW aircraft?
Granted, my point is even if Morrocco had a capable AWACS it could not link with it even after the upgrade, whilst yes, Pakistan’s F-16s can link to their Erieyes.
MountainRosetta technology pRovides data link integRation
capabilities foR the following Message foRMats
and inteRfaces:
Low level interfaces
> MIL-STD-1553
> ARINC-429, 561, etc.
> RS-422
> Ethernet (TCP/IP and UDP/IP) server and client interfaces
> Sync serial
> ASync serial
> AEGIS/CVN NTDS parallel and serial
> ICI PCMCIA improved modem card
> ICI USB modem
> Aeronix/Symetrics UROC modem
Protocols supported
> ARINC-429
> MIL-STD 188-184
> MIL-STD 3011A (STADILJ)
> MIL-STD 3011C
> Slowlink (Rosetta broadcast)
Forwarding
> MIL-STD-6020
> USAF TACP Gateway forwarding rules
> Finland country-wide infrastructure rules
> Swedish air to ground rules
Equipment interfaces
> PRC-150
> PRC-117F/G
> PRC-152
> PRC-148
> JTRS enhanced MBITR
> MIDS LVT 1 Platorm A, B and N
> MIDS LVT 2 Platform J
> Class 2 JTIDS
> Class 2M JTIDS (E2C)
> FDL
> URC-138 (SHAR)
> SADL RT-1720
Mapping applications
> MAP-X®
> FalconView®
> Maria
> Google Earth™ Mapping Service
Certifications
> Link 11 to Link 16
> Link 16 C2
Supported sensors/links
> CEC
> TIBS
> MIL-STD 6016 B
> MIL-STD 6016 C
> Link 11
> VMF Reissue 2
> VMF Version 3
> VMF Version 5
> VMF Version 6 and 6+
> MIL-STD 6017
Command and Control systems
> TACP Gateway
> TBMCS
> ADOCS/JADOCS
> AFATDS – (includes Excalibur)
> FBCB2
Aircraft interoperable with
> A-10C SADL and VMF
> F-16 IDM
> F-16 Link 16
> F-15E Link 16
> AWACS/JSTARS Link 16
> Mirage F1 IDM
> Mirage 2000 IDM
> Tornado IDM
> B-52 VMF
SPECiFiCATionS SubjECT To ChAngE wiThouT noTiCE.
> MIL-STD 6017A
> STANAG 5522 (Link 22)
> IDM-AFAPD
> GBDL
> OTH-GOLD
> USMTF
> OMNITRAKS, SABRE
> AEGIS interface; N SERIES
> SLQ-32 EW system
> Situational Awareness Data Link (SADL)
> AC-130U Link 16
> AV-8 MTS
> F/A-18 C, D, E, F VMF
> F/A-18 SuperHornet Link 16
> Grippen Link 16
> EuroFighter Link 16
> CF-18 Canada VMF
> Jaguar IDM
WOW! That is a lot of words to essentially prove nothing. Where does it stay the Maroc F-1s got a data link in all that?
MountainOh come on now who’s playing on words MF-2000 makes F-1 much more than just a BVR platform it makes it BVR in the A2A / A2G and anti-shipping roles with a very impressive option of weapon
For A2A
MICA EM/IR
Sidewinder
PythonFor air-to-ground missions,
the MF2000 can carry a wide range of guided and unguided munitions. Use of the Damocles day/night laser designation pod allows the carriage of a variety of laser-guided bombs, but perhaps the greatest expansion to air-to-ground capabilities is provided by the new AASM precision-guided, stand-off rocket-boosted bomb, supported by a mission preparation system provided by Sagem Défense Sécurité and a debriefing system
ARMAT anti-radiation missile
MBDA AM39 Exocet anti-ship missile.So what mission can a F-16 MLU do that a F-1 MF-2000 can’t do
And you are missing my point which is that if the PAF were to buy or be given 12 or so F-16 A’s without the MLU carried out what would it cost in todays market to bring them up to PAF fleet standard
Pretty sure the F-1 could fire the sidewinder and python without the MF2000 upgrade.
Can the F-1 now use HOB missiles? No.
Can it data link to AWACS? No.
Can it use the DB-110 pod. No.
Can it transfer Sniper pod data to a ground terminal to frontline troops?. No.
and (again) you miss the fact the cost also included Falcon Star airframe upgrade.
MountainPakistan to acquire more Sniper pods
Military Air Forces to include Iraq, Pakistan and Taiwan through Foreign Military Sales. This acquisition of supplies and services is for five years through CY2020. This requirement is to sustain 125 operational systems flying an average of 12 hours per month at an 85% operational availability.
MountainFirstly I never said MF-2000 had Rafale Tec I said it had Rafale capability in which it can carry almost all of the A2G weapons that a Rafale can carry
Second Damocles is an outstanding targeting and recon pod
Thirdly at 21 million MLU is a good price but today now you can not get MLU for 21 million it will cost you 38 million and as you can see from my last post both programs aim to carry out the same task with pretty much the same out come i.e. MLU makes the F-16A into a BVR capable multi-role platform and that is what the MF-2000 program has done for F-1
So to go back my first question was how much dose a MLU cost and what do you get and 38 million is a bit steep for an upgrade and in my opinion MLU is not 22 million dollars better
I’m not going to get into a play on words, you said the MF2000
Your words “The MF -2000 upgrade opens up the Rafale toy box to the F-1 and gives it a mix of MK2 -9 and Rafale capability”
$21 million is the price the PAF paid (and this discussion is in relation to their purchase so I will stick with that figure).
Also, you missed my point that their is no data link or HMS in the MF2000 upgrade. These are pretty key features of why countries go for MLU.
Yes, as you rightfully say MF2000 makes the F-1 into a BVR platform, but the MLU makes a F-16A into much much more then that.
MountainThanks for that.
Not wanting to divert this thread from the Pakistan Air Force, but in answer to your post
1) Much of the tech is from the Mirage 2000 – 5/9 programme, not from Rafale.
2) As mentioned, the PAF MLU package included a structural upgrade in the cost
3) No Link 16 and certainly no capability (both targeting and ISR ) that Sniper gives
4) Also, the cockpit becomes compatible with a HMS but none is provided in the MF2000 prgramme (happy to be corrected on this)
As you can see from the above, I am not saying the MF2000 programe is not any good, just to argue that it presents much better value for money of the MLU programe of PAF is, in my opinion wrong). The $ sums are not vastly far apart (even if we are comparing 2006 $ with 2010 $
MountainSo as far as I can see a MLU for F-16 will cost some where between 28 and 35 million dollars which when you put this up against 15.5 million for Mirage F-1 upgrade to MF-2000 spec is a bit steep. as said the good news for the PAF is the Jordanian air-frames are already done and in this case they are an outstanding buy and I can see more deals like this to come
No offence, but that is a very over simplified comparision.
1) The MF2000 upgrade gives nowhere near the capabilities of a F-16 MLU
2) Pakistan’s upgrades worked out around $21 million each and this included the FALCON STAR airframe upgrades. So for $21 million you get a plane with almost Block 52 capabilities (bar the engine) and another 20 years.
MountainQuatar does not have that much money considering its bad investments. it has cut down WC stadiums by 1/3. its LNG future is dark.
I don’t know how French came to believe that Qatar can afford couple of squardons of Rafale with expensive weopons and training.
If you are going to make sweeping statements about a countries economy try and be sure of your facts.
IMF: QATAR’S ECONOMY ON TRACK DESPITE HIGH SPENDING
The IMF extended a deservedly healthy report pertaining to Qatar’s economy. The fund believes the country’s economy is projected to expand by a sizable 7 percent in 2015 on the back of developments outside of the petroleum sector
http://www.dailysabah.com/economy/2014/05/12/imf-qatars-economy-on-track-despite-high-spending
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